Prime-4-Prime, Joe Fraizer vs Vitali Klitschko, who wins?

Bubby · Nov 10, 2011

SILENCER said: ↑

FRAZIER! This name is supposed to strike fear into the hearts of boxing fans and teleport them into a never-ending state of terror. "Frazier!" (you have to pronounce it like televangelists pronounce "jeEEE-Zess").

Only 2 win opponents of Ali are really famous: Frazier is one of them (with george foreman being the other). Frazier even beat Muhammad Ali once thus he is very special to nostalgists. the question i ask is how would the brothers in there primes do against him?

whenever I listen to AliFan(t)s ("Ali fantasizers") I definitely get the feeling that they are NOT talking about a human (Joe Frazier) but about THE FRAZIAAAH, an alien robot who has been tweaked by his alien masters to conquer the best fighters of all time ("I..must..destroy..I..must..bob") and could only be temporarily stalled by "Cryptonite Clay" and (for some yet unknown reason) by "Fantastic 4man". Other than that no human being in the history of boxing could survive the weaving of the FRAZIAAAH!Well, let's forget for a second fairy-tales (because we simply cannot argue against witchcraft arguments) and let's instead compile some factual achievements.

Frazier was blind on left eye his entire professional career (after a training accident 1964) He would pass medical exams by covering his left eye and then switch his arm to cover his left eye AGAIN. Such a handicap as Frazier wouldn't be allowed to box nowadays.
Height: 5'11'.5''
Started as a cruiser 197 lbs.
Median weight of Frazier's KOvictim: 197 lbs (cruiser)
Career record (all fights): 32-4
Career record real heavyweight fights 200x2 lbs: 13-4
Career record real superheavyweight fights 215x2 lbs: 1-2
That would be Frazier's real superheavyweight experience when facing Klitschkos.

There MUST be something else that I am missing! Let's check his performance against natural heavies (= those who never boxed sub-200 lbs and thus are somewhat comparable to Wladimir Klitschko):
Frazier boxed 9 times against natural heavies (that's good)
He scored 4 KOs
of which 3 were against bums
·Don Smith (11-7)
·Ron Stander (37-21)
·Mel Turnbow (8-13)
and 1 KO (round 11) was against a non-bum
·Buster Mathis (30-4, 61% KOratio), a very fat boxer. No wonder Frazier could KO him in the 11th round: It was the first time that Buster went more than 10 rounds and already the previous 10-rounder of Buster was merely a split decision against bum ·Bob Stallings (31-32, 201 lbs).
Hmm, I am still not impressed.

Let's check what happened when Frazier fought the only heavyweight in the 1970ies who is somewhat comparable to Klitschko: George Foreman.It was one of the most one-sided brutal beatings of the 1970ies ("Ping Pong vs King Kong")

On the Internet there are COUNTLESS of other similar statements ("Tyson KOs Klitschko within 1 round", "Ali within 5" etc etc) and the best way to counter is to check whom the boxers actually _DID_ KO within the mentioned number of rounds and whether those KO victims are comparable to Klitschko.

Joe Frazier KOed 14 opponents within 3 rounds (that's pretty good, considering he had only 37 fights).

But it turns out that ALL of them were bums (median career record of these bums 11-23) except for 2 opponents
·Bob Foster 188 lbs (= cruiser) and
·Dave Zyglewycz 190 lbs (= cruiser) whom tiny Frazier (hold your hat) out-weighed, out-reached and out-talled.
Dave Zyglewycz has been called "the worst guy to ever get a title shot" and once you check his wins (ONLY bums, median record 10-16) you will have to agree.
In other words: Another AliFant(asy) exposed.

Chris Byrd (who is universally considered a featherfist) posed a much higher punch threat than Ali or Frazier ever would. yes i did actually say that! Byrd's number of real heavyweight KOs 200x2 is more than twice as high (19) as Frazier's ( Chris Byrd looks even good when compared to Earnie Shavers (= allegedly another Super Puncher if you believe the Ali mythology) Byrd has more KOs in real superheavyweight fights 215x2 than Joe Frazier and Earnie Shavers COMBINED now I know, these are facts that good-old-time nostalgists try to ignore, but
Chris Byrd (who is universally considered a featherfist) posed a much higher punch threat than Frazier ever would.

To sum it up:
Joe Frazier is a superheavyweight extreme featherfist
Joe Frazier's median KOvictim is a cruiser 197 lbs
Joe Frazier is smaller than Chris Byrd
Joe Frazier is less reachy than Chris Byrd
Joe Frazier is a handicap (left eye blind)
Joe Frazier (median 204 lbs) is less heavy than Chris Byrd (median 213 lbs)
Joe Frazier never faced anyone as tall as Klitschko or as punchstrong as Klitschko
Joe Frazier never faced anyone as heavyweight experienced as Klitschko

When Joe Frazier met the only heavyweight comparable to Klitschko (Foreman) he was violently schooled
After years of reading "Ali mythology" I still didn't find out how in the world someone can believe that Frazier poses a threat to Klitschko whatsoever (or even to modern heavyweights in general).

Let me tell you: There is NOTHING in the record of Frazier that would remotely convince me of a win against a Klitschko. Instead ALL of the facts point at an easy win for Klitschko (and we didn't even analyze how well Klitschko fared against such opponents like Frazier).

Frazier's best win was against Ali. It's especially valuable because it was a James vs Bond match ("Double-0" = 2 unbeaten fighters). But that's about it. There is not a single other performance of Frazier that is remotely impressive.

Let's make it even more clear:

Joe Frazier is not the "Super Tyson" that AliFans made him out to be

Muhammad Ali's problems with Frazier are not a proof of the quality of Frazier, but a proof of the limitedness of Ali

George Foreman put Frazier there where he objectively belongs

Wake up. The 1970ies are over.

Klitschko fighting such a small, featherfisty, half-blind opponent like Joe Frazier, would be the final proof for haters of how the current era sucks.

p.s dont bother posting your wlad losing to sanders videos and please do keep neglecting the fact that fighters peak at different times and please keep on overlooking guys like patterson and louis who were floored more times than wlad yet there chins are never questioned!! so bring on the cliches and grandads 'old favourites' and keep telling yourselves that boxing is the only sport in which its athletes dont improve as the years go on.

and dont take this post personal,im talking pure boxing,my rerspects go out to joe and his family.
Click to expand...

It doesn't get any clearer!:good:happy

the_baller · Nov 10, 2011

Joe only lost to 2 men and they were to the greatest champions of champions and in the greatest era of heavyweight boxing. And they were both the world greatest big men to ever lace up the gloves.

George Foreman and Muhammed Ali.

Now unless the Klitlickers are trying to make an argument that the Klits are somehow better than both of those 2 legends, then Joe smokes the hell out of the Klits like the 1st fresh Newport out the pack.

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Saber120 · Nov 11, 2011

Against wlad joe can crack his china chin but wlad has freakish power similer to george so he could possibly mess joe up. Vitaly dosent have the insane 1 punch power of george or wlad though and foreman was the only guy to really koed joes arse all over the ring yet joe kept getting up immeditly 6 times in a row against the hardest puncher ever. I dont see how vitaly can really hurt him bad unless he lands a series of his best shots in a row and joe can also take sustained beatings very well. Vitaly is too durable to go down to joe even if joe lands constantly (which he wont, except to the body maybe). So it would go to points.

timeout · Nov 11, 2011

Question that should really be asked is;
could Frazier in his prime beat mormek?
That's a more balanced question....

gattiwarrior · Nov 11, 2011

look frazier is my fav fighter of all time but he would have a hard time with vitali because styles make fights.

i do think that frazier would win but only after 15 hard rounds.

vitali is too slow vs a prime frazier , he wouldnt had enough combinations to stop frazier and his style of 1-2 punches at a time just aint enough.

frazier does his usuall by building his way into the fight...after 6 the fight would be level , after 12 frazier would have a 2-3 point lead , after 15 frazier wins by 4-5 points.

frazier is just much for vitali , frazier is constant and bashing the body like nobody has ever done to vitali.

if ali cant keep frazier away then vitali wont be able too

frazier 10-5 or 9-5-1 in rounds

ps: wlad gets kayoed..his chin wont stand the left hook by the midstages

Bubby · Nov 11, 2011

Frazier was a guy who eat the mat as many times as Wladimir, just when did He become this iron chined superman?

Kydosan · Nov 11, 2011

I would pick Joe over Wlad, but Vitali would utterly dominate him.

Vitali is a very underrated fighter.

Alien · Nov 11, 2011

Blown up middleweight Chris Byrd walked Vitali down and forced him into one of the most embarrassing quit jobs in boxing history.

Frazier's relentless pressure forces Vitali to quit even earlier.

killuminix · Nov 11, 2011

:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl dr analfist holy shitt :rofl

larsker · Nov 11, 2011

Bubby said: ↑

Frazier was a guy who eat the mat as many times as Wladimir, just when did He become this iron chined superman?
Click to expand...

atsch
But do you not see the cruiserweights of the past are the best!!!!!
Wlad would be sent into a coma even by a Dave Zyglewicz right hand. Fact!!

mr. magoo · Nov 11, 2011

mightyd40 said: ↑

i think vital would win a decision due to his size and ability to control the fight. his ko percentage is high but its primarily because he's fighting in an age of heavyweight bums. Joe Frazier was no bum, he would've tried all throughout the fight and probably would've given vitali some trouble at times and maybe even put him on his ass once or twice. Vitali by wide decision against a game Joe Frazier.
Click to expand...

This is a reasonable prediction and I agree with it.. I'm not so sure that Frazier would put him on the deck though.

Ulver · Nov 11, 2011

Vitali by annihilation.

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