The problem with Juan Manuel Marquez....

Etu86 · Nov 12, 2011

Nay_Sayer said: ↑

I see you're not meant to be taken seriously so I'll stop doing so.

It was YOUR argument that haplotype M1 was Asian.
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"Originally Posted by Nay_Sayer
There were no White civilizations in Ancient Africa. NONE."
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My source completely REFUTES that assertion while at the same time completely DESTROYING 75% of your so-called argument. Once again;The question of the origin of M1 is still a matter up for debate.
CAN_YOU_NOT_READ?
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Etu86 · Nov 12, 2011

Nay_Sayer said: ↑

You thought wrong, Genius.
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Etu86 · Nov 12, 2011

etu86 said: ↑

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:d

Etu86 · Nov 12, 2011

Nay_Sayer said: ↑

Sorry Genius but you're quoting old and outdated sources.

Ironically, the earliest certain images of the white crown come not from Egypt but from Qustul in Lower Nubia, about 300 km up-river from Hierakonpolis. These images occur on two incense burners of uniquely Nubian type, which depict kings seated in archaic high-prowed boats wearing abnormally tall crowns with knobs, accompanied by bulls and Horus falcons (Williams 1980; 1986, pls. 33, 34).

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.

They date to about 3300 BC. The same crown then appears not long afterwards in Egypt: on an unprovenienced ivory knife handle in the
Metropolitian Museum and, later still, on the Scorpion mace head and Narmer palette (Wilkinson 1999, 1945).
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Once again;The Qustul incense burner is of a "uniquely Nubian type" and is the earliest known representation of the White Crown. If it's YOUR assertion that the Qustul incense burner was imported, please cite your EVIDENCE.

I'm waiting.
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Etu86 · Nov 12, 2011

SILENCER said: ↑

care to explain this naysayer??

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Originally Posted by Nay_Sayer
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From the tomb of Ramses III.

Read 'em and weep.

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i asked you for your sources in another thread and you gave me this?^^^
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Bravado · Nov 12, 2011

I would love to add into this subject, but seriously, there is way to much color in this ***** and it feels like everything that is wrong in the world. I really cant read that ****

Nay_Sayer · Nov 12, 2011

Etu86 said: ↑

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Thank you for confirming what I had been suspecting all along, that I'm debating with a stark raving idiot.

Once again, YOUR source says;

Skeletal sampling was mainly restricted to sites from Middle and Upper Egypt so that all individuals would have experienced reasonably similar geographical and climatic conditions. Due to the lack of Old Kingdom (OK), skeletal remains from Upper Egypt and one series from Lower Egypt were also analyzed (Gizeh). Site locations are shown in Figure 1. Distances between sites are shown in Table 1.

The selection of skeletal material was mainly pragmatic. For most periods, all available material was assessed, although complete skeletons were preferred over crania alone, and complete crania were selected in preference to fragmentary material. Care was taken to maximize samples from all available time periods. The sampling was also limited by the selection of the material that had been removed from Egypt and thus available for study in museum and university collections. Many collections derive from early excavations, with only individuals of interest being shipped back to the European collector funding the excavation, and hence the material studied may not be completely representative of the cemetery population. Four collections were studied; the Duckworth Collection of the Department of Biological Anthropology in Cambridge, the Egyptian collection of the Natural History Museum in London, the Marro Collection of the Department of Anthropology and Biology in Turin, and the Reisner Collection of the Natural History Museum in Vienna.

A series of six time-period groups were studied, dating from the Badarian (c. 4000 BC) to the MK (c. 1900 BC). The periods studied were the Badarian, the Early Predynastic (EPD), the LPD, the EDyn, the OK, and MK. Samples (Table 2) were studied only if they could be reliably dated to one of the six periods. The dates in Table 2 are midpoint time period dates and generate a temporal distance matrix. For further details regarding the cemeteries, see Zakrzewski (2003). Analysis was limited to adult individuals, with maturity being determined on the basis of sphenooccipital fusion, full epiphyseal fusion, and complete eruption of the third molars.

The Badarian crania have been characterized by their small and gracile nature (Stoessiger, 1927; Morant, 1935; Strouhal, 1971; Gaballah et al., 1972), and their relatively high degree of facial prognathism (Stoessiger, 1927). The current study supports this description (being placed low on PC1 in Fig. 2, as a result of their short cranial vaults and narrow faces). Furthermore, their phenotypic homogeneity (Fig. 2, Table 5) has been demonstrated. As a result of their facial prognathism, the Badarian sample has been described as forming a morphological cluster with Nubian, Tigrean, and other southern (or \Negroid") groups (Morant, 1935, 1937; Mukherjee et al., 1955; Nutter, 1958, Strouhal, 1971; Angel, 1972; Keita, 1990). Cranial nonmetric trait studies have found this group to be similar to other Egyptians, including much later material (Berry and Berry, 1967, 1972), but also to be significantly different from LPD material (Berry et al., 1967). Similarly, the study of dental nonmetric traits has suggested that the Badarian population is at the centroid of Egyptian dental samples (Irish, 2006), thereby suggesting similarity and hence continuity across Egyptian time periods. From the central location of the Badarian samples in Figure 2, the current study finds the Badarian to be relatively morphologically close to the centroid of all the Egyptian samples. The Badarian have been shown to exhibit greatest morphological similarity with the temporally successive EPD (Table 5). Finally, the biological distinctiveness of the Badarian from other Egyptian samples has also been demonstrated (Tables 6 and 7).

Population Continuity or Population Change:
Formation of the Ancient Egyptian State (2007)
Sonia R. Zakrzewski

http://wysinger.homestead.com/zakrzewski_2007.pdf
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Body shape

Stature is comprised of contributions from several body portions, i.e., from the lower limb and from the trunk and cranium. The analyses performed on each individual bone were undertaken to see whether the small stature change found could be assigned to differences in growth of either the lower limb or the trunk (employing upper limb measurements as an indirect proxy for trunk size). Both upper and lower limb measurements (individual long bone lengths) exhibited significant change through time, although neither upper limb length (humerus radius) nor lower limb length (femur tibia) themselves exhibited significant change through time. All long bone lengths that changed display the same trend of increasing in length up until the start of the Dynastic period, and then decrease to the MK. None of the body ratios separating upper and lower portions exhibit statistically significant change through time. This pattern supports suggestions that the relative constancy of stature (i.e., the relatively low level of change through time) cannot easily be compartmentalized. This result is in agreement with previous research that found no significant change in body proportions between the Predynastic period and the Middle Kingdom (Masali, 1972; Robins, 1983).

The ancient Egyptians have been described as having a “Negroid” body plan (Robins, 1983). Variations in the proximal to distal segments of each limb were therefore examined. Of the ratios considered, only maximum humerus length to maximum ulna length (XLH/XLU) showed statistically significant change through time. This change was a relative decrease in the length of the humerus as compared with the ulna, suggesting the development of an increasingly African body plan with time. This may also be the result of Nubian mercenaries being included in the sample from Gebelein.

The nature of the body plan was also investigated by comparing the intermembral, brachial, and crural indices for these samples with values obtained from the literature. No significant differences were found in either index through time for either sex. The raw values in Table 6 suggest that Egyptians had the “super-Negroid” body plan described by Robins (1983). The values for the brachial and crural indices show that the distal segments of each limb are longer relative to the proximal segments than in many “African” populations (data from Aiello and Dean, 1990). This pattern is supported by Figure 7 (a plot of population mean femoral and tibial lengths; data from Ruff, 1994), which indicates that the Egyptians generally have tropical body plans. Of the Egyptian samples, only the Badarian and Early Dynastic period populations have shorter tibiae than predicted from femoral length. Despite these differences, all samples lie relatively clustered together as compared to the other populations.

Variation in Ancient Egyptian Stature and Body Proportions, Sonia R. Zakrzewski

http://wysinger.homestead.com/egyptian_body_proportions.pdf
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Zakrzewski is YOUR SOURCE, Genius, not mine. YOUR OWN SOURCE REFUTES YOU, Einstein.

LEARN HOW TO READ.

Kydosan · Nov 12, 2011

I think this is the most severely and hilariously off-topic I've ever seen a thread go.

"the problem with Juan Manuel Marquez is..." *12 pages of increasingly hostile discussion about ancient egyptians*

Nay_Sayer · Nov 12, 2011

Gained said: ↑

Hello etu86

I must say you done a good job of throughly anniliating this afro clown nay-slayer

Being a highly respected archeologist and a expert in your field ,this nay character is a cut and paste armchair clown. You use facts, he cant answer your questions. So use his afrocentric sources ,which have been rubbished,debunked and thrown in to the trash can. Talk about wysinger,thats a huge joke. Hes a discredited afro clown. Nay-slayer the whole forum has seen your demise here. The more you write,the more foolish you are looking.

Game over afro clown
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The nature of the body plan was also investigated by comparing the intermembral, brachial, and crural indices for these samples with values obtained from the literature. No significant differences were found in either index through time for either sex. The raw values in Table 6 suggest that Egyptians had the super-Negroid body plan described by Robins (1983). The values for the brachial and crural indices show that the distal segments of each limb are longer relative to the proximal segments than in many African populations (data from Aiello and Dean, 1990). This pattern is supported by Figure 7 (a plot of population mean femoral and tibial lengths; data from Ruff, 1994), which indicates that the Egyptians generally have tropical body plans. Of the Egyptian samples, only the Badarian and Early Dynastic period populations have shorter tibiae than predicted from femoral length. Despite these differences, all samples lie relatively clustered together as compared to the other populations.

Variation in Ancient Egyptian Stature and Body Proportions, Sonia R. Zakrzewski
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Get a clue, Genius...

MasterStyle · Nov 12, 2011

Marquez aa I guess isnt a clever guy, his tactics in the rings show that, and other instance, he still speaks only spanish.Couldnt those Mexicans fighting in US learn English?

slugger3000 · Nov 12, 2011

Hey ***s what happend to the JMM-pac discussion!

red cobra · Nov 12, 2011

Pac will beat JMM decisively this time, and maybe like Duran beat DeJesus in their third fight...officially ending their trilogy. Pac by tko in 10.

DDDUUDDDEE · Nov 14, 2011

Hahaha, what the **** is going on here?

DDDUUDDDEE · Nov 14, 2011

Oh look, a place to discuss the JMM-Pac fight!, this should be fun...

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Caestus · Nov 14, 2011

Nubians were reigning in Egypt for a few dinastyes, with nubian (black) faraons.But egyptians were not black.

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