Sonny Liston at 28 vs Mike Tyson at 20.

Tyson himself said in an interview during the late 80s that he had devised strategies for every former HW champ in history, but had to concede that he had no answers for "Liston's jab". Tyson was a student of the history and Liston worried him.

I take issue with a few themes on this thread.

First is the argument that Liston's chin was suspect. That is a false, unless you believe the farce that was Ali-Liston II, or you place inordinate value on the Martin fight that happened when Liston was at least in his late 30s. If Liston's chin was not as durable as it was, I'd favor Tyson. Liston's chin is durable, and that propels him as the favorite in my book.

About Liston's jab. Liston would be a step behind Tyson in terms of speed. However, Liston's jab may not land squarely on Tyson's cheek, but Liston was good with making allowances for that. For instance, Patterson had the same bobbing and weaving style as Liston, so Liston stuck his jab at Floyd's eyes, left it there for a moment, and then came around with heavy rights to his right side. In the rematch, Liston seemed to jab at the shoulders.

Against Tyson, relying on the jab as an offensive weapon would fail during the early rounds. Tyson would counter it. But I see Liston using it to measure him and to get him off balance. An off balance puncher is at a disadvantage. On the inside, Liston would not be wrestling while Tyson is taking a rest. Liston would be throwing short hooks to the side of the head and big right hooks to the side. Liston would be very effective in close, because Tyson's speed advantage would be neutralized and he would be bulled around. Liston was far stronger in my estimation.

Liston was better inside and at long range, with that 84 inch reach. His uppercuts were devestating... and a crouching Frazier-like incoming style is at serious risk against either a Liston or a Foreman. Tyson would have to jam with him at mid-range, but Liston knew angles and was defensively sound. Liston would also be forcing Tyson backward with his strength and off balance with that jab. There is a slim chance, very slim, that Tyson could jump on him early and KO him, but outside of that every round sees Tyson getting weaker and Liston gaining confidence.

Liston KO Tyson >10.

 

Silver, you're avatar is distracting me.:shock:

 

tyson said to cus I can't beat Sonny Liston. Don't worry Mike he's not hear any more

 

This is purely 50/50 for me, Liston has the skills and size and power to wear Tyson down late and KO him,
my question is how would Listons chin hold up though?

Also, Liston never fought ANYONE like Tyson.

Actually Tyson himself stated, the one man hed be afraid of fighting, was Liston.

Liston is the daddy of all the heavyweights (after Clay/Ali), IMO he beats them all, but Tyson is 50-50

 

Id love to have more info regarding this

I wouldnt question Listons chin after the Ali II farce, however, Tyson is a totally different force of nature, the question still stands could Liston take what Tyson brings? Tyson at least showed what hes made of in the Ruddock fights.

Listons jab is one of the best, however his footwork isnt all that, could Tyson figure out his jab after a while? Douglas and Holyfield both used a good jab + angles, i dont see Liston using angles. Remember when Tyson figure out Mathis.

Liston was far stronger in my estimation. Liston was def strong and Tyson wasnt that hard to push around.

 

Liston is one of the few I see going through Mike without much incident.

 

The key to this fight is how well can Tyson slip the jab and how well can Sonny land the jab.

I think it would be an extremely close fight and see it going into the late rounds with both men taking their fair share of punishment.

If Liston has been more successful with the jab i can see him stopping Tyson late or taking a UD.

If Tyson has managed to slip and work past the jab then i can see him slowing Lsiton down and taking a late TKO/KO.

If pressured to answer i think Liston has a better chance just because i can imagine Tyson getting frustrated and jumping into some solid jabs.

 

Liston. For three or four rounds,these two would go at it,hammer and tong. Tyson would start losing confidence,and eventually fall.

Liston in seven or eight.

 

Then Sonny would knock Don King out at the post fight conference. For trying to rip him off.

 

Slipping Listons Jab and coming inside. perhaps would not deliver the same results for Tyson, that slipping The Jabs of other, "non-predatory" Fighters Tyson Met Like Tubbs, Thomas, Biggs, Etc, acheived, Liston would probably Prey for an Insde Fight, Ok Give him a few Extra Inches Punching Room.

Sometimes Mike Does not keep working when up Very Close, (As a Frazier Would) and with his feet often too close together he can be pushed back as Holyfield Showed, I actually Do not have complete faith in Either to Grit it out if things start to go against them to any great degree, Unlike against mobile Boxers who they will, all being well, belive that they can ultimately catch up with and despatch, but in this match, both would recognise the other as a Heavy Density Predator , who doesnt let wounded prey off the hook, but destroys it in Brutal quick order !

Sometimes when tyson feels threatened he seems to up the Trash Talk, But would he Tell Liston he was going to make him his Girlfriend ? somehow i doubt it, i think they both spoke each others language, Liston with looks more then words, and intimidation will not work, this one would have to be won through deed, and is it not beyond the bounds of possibility that Tyson might implode mentally and commit some horrendous Foul ? or liston if he starts to take a consistent Battering might Mentally Fold as opposed to Physically, with the Physical Fold to Follow ? nothing is wrong with Listons Chin, it might be a gradual leakage of his willpower, Both are actually Great "On Top" fighters, its when one Slips behind that the uncertainty begins, Tyson would probably be Favoured by the Younger Follower with Perhaps The Older Follower Favouring Liston ? ( I.m Probably In The Middle !)

I would feel that Tyson would be made the overall Bookies Favourite, But in which case i would fancy an upset, i think a young - pre Clay / championship Liston has the determination to Make Tyson Work and Take him to the Middle rounds, as i can see a lot of clinching and mauling, with each Fighters Bombruns being Sporadic and Short Lived, as Tyson Tires Liston may find His Jab Starts to become much more Effective. once Liston is Comfortable with the Pace, i Can See Tyson Winding Down Somewhat, and as Liston feels his Second Wind coming on, i can See him maintaining the pace and Keeping the Action Steady, but steady in his Favour, a winning formula to take him to the payoff moment, It actually may depend on how a tiring Tyson keeps it together as to wether he hears the final bell or not, if he starts Stumbling in Throwing Single shots before falling into a Clinch, i think Liston would at some stage catch him coming in for perhaps an 8th Round ko,

Tyson was reputed to be at his best in the Spinks Fight, BUT was spinks really that much of a barometer that night, Mercury may not freeze but Spinks surely did ! so once again Tyson had enjoyed things so very much his own way, But what would happen if this young Man-Child couldnt intimidate his mature strong opponent, and started taking his own medicine from the Stoney Faced one ?

If we are talking about A 22 - 24 year old Tyson against a 28-29 year old Liston then Perhaps Sonny could of kept his (Embryonic ?) Inner demons in check long enough to get through the Dangerous early rounds until the Fight Settles down to a pace more Suited for Sonny ? He certainly has the strenght not to be bullied, Their Both Sprinters to a degree, Tyson much the Faster, but can he stay with Liston over a Longer Distence ? Whilst it wouldnt Shock me if Tyson was to Treat Liston Like he did Frank Bruno, i would favour the Upset with perhaps a Younger Liston displaying a Disipiline and fortitude not usually associated with him, perhaps unfairly because of the clay results, but this Sonny was aging and overconfident by then,

The Younger Liston could certainly cope with tyson's Intimidation because he could undertand it, he was after all a past-master himself, but i do have my doubts as to wether the perhap more all-round Talented Tyson, - But A ManChild in his Acredited Prime, - could hold it together mentally when he finds himself on the receiving end from Liston !

Truth to tell, if they both just cut loose, when the Mushroom Cloud clears it could be anyone on the canvas, Tyson is an instinctual operator, but if Liston comes in behind the heavy Jab, Jams Tysons Attack Signals, puts Static in his Attic, and breeds in Tyson a sense of caution and having to Think before firing, then Sonny could nullify any disadvantage in lack of speed and create the openings and targeting time he requires to unload successfully.

Its easy to become seduced by Tyson on the strengh of his usual unhindered output, but i feel Tyson will not be nearly so effective when he has to operate while nasty Payloads are Incoming. Not from a technical "Boxer" Remember - But from a fellow destroyer

Two Bullies, Two Great "OnTop" Fighters, Man against Man Child

Call them what you will, I could easily of been proven wrong but

I'd Plumb for The Younger "Prime" Stoney-Faced One.

 

I agree with this post by Ironchamp. Tyson is bigger than Liston with faster hands and a workrate that will give Liston trouble.

 

Kid Dynamite by KO in 5.

This ain't the up-prepared Tyson of the Douglas fight or the post-incarceration version, both of which Liston would take.

 

Tyson wins by stoppage of course , and it doesn't take Tyson 2 stop Liston .
But d old delusional fantasists here (along with a few young imitators) pick Liston even over Tua , Foreman & Vitali Klitschko .
Sure they will say every time that Liston's "84 inch" reach will have Valuev in so much trouble and Liston's right hand will go all d way and KO d giant :yep .
After all it was "that" long and "that " powerful .
Then Liston gets upset by Hasim Rahman and Orlin Norris :yep .
Since Liston didn't fight Chuvalo , it is hard 2 know his true worth . I think Chuvalo , Cleroux and Doug Jones were d best contenders of his era , and he fought none of them . Not claiming he would have lost 2 them , but he fought yet inferior opposition 2 what was actually available in his infraweak era .
Of course n "educated" historian will claim that he beat those who beat them , but d truth remains that d best of his era were those i mentioned and not those who took some pathetic gift (maybe sometimes not gifts , just maybe , but still unimpressing) decisions over them .

 

A lot of good points here for either side of the argument. Great thread.

In the end, I think Liston has more trouble with Tyson's speed of attack and combinations than Tyson has with Liston's power and jab. I may change my mind in another couple hours.

 

tyson would have been too fast and powerful 8 rounds at the most .