juan manuel marquez is pacquaios ken norton

Took 3 fights to make you realise Marquez has a style advantage?

 

Juan Manuel Marquez =

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I hate these Marquez - Norton comparisons, to me they suggest that the sum of Marquez' career is that he is simply Pacquiaos stylistic nightmare, as oppossed to an ATG, 3 weight division world champion (should be 4).

 

Marquez is not Pacquiao's Ken Norton

Juan Manuel Marquez is Pacquiao's equal.

 

I think the fight was extremely close tbh. To many even rounds that were difficult to score. A draw would have been fine IMO.

No real clear winner imo.

 

So basically what you are saying is that the spotty youth called Compubox with a pad and pen is the definitive answer....I prefer to rely on what I see with my own two eyes

 

Well obviously I had the Pole winning... :blurp

I didn't actually, I had DeGale up by one or two rounds. But I'm bored of hearing punchstats trotted out as an argument for why a close fight was scored one way or the other. Judges shouldn't be counting punches, they're meant to be watching the fight.

One guy might land 50 jabs but does no damage, the other lands ten punches that have his opponent hanging on for dear life every time he lands. I'd score that for the second fighter.

 

In the ring but overall Manny is the far greater fighter IMO.

Funny thing is, when I started a 'who is greater Marquez or Floyd' thread and made the case for Marquez deserving to have two massive sccalps on his resume in his first two fights with Pac', his claims of 'greatness' was dismissed.

Now he's done it again, more recently, he's an ATG again.

 

Yeh Manny has definitely achieved more and ranks a lot higher.

I have to admit I didn't think Marquez would be able to take the power of Manny. Then again he didn't have to, one step back and a move to his left and Pac fell short all night.

He is the first fighter since there second fight that has fought Manny off the back foot and counter punched.

Diaz is always there to hit
Oscar as the bigger man stood in front of him
Hatton came straight at him
Cotto only did it after the damage was done
Clottey didn't want to fight
Margarito thinks you block punches with your face
Mosley was to scared to engage, more so after the knockdown. He fought in retreat after KD which is not his natural game, thats why fight was so ****.

I'm not doubting Manny's greatness I'm a big fan as you well know but it's definitely raised a few questions. In all honesty I though his speed was the equalizer against any defensive fighter.

Has your view on a potential Mayweather fight changed. I still think he has the style to beat Floyd.

 

Horrific thread.

 

I think Pac' may well cause Floyd more troubles than he caused Marquez. I also think because Floyd and Marquez are counter punchers, it's quite fashionable to say 'Floyd will be able to counter punch Manny then' when in fact, they are completely different fighters.

But will Floyd be able to position himself and land his sharp, accurate shots. Yes, I admit that he will.

My thoughts were that Manny had been freed from cutting weight and had become a more complete fighter. As you pointed out, it was just that the bigger guys couldn't deal with his speed and came right at him, and against a technical fighter with real knowledge of Ring Generalship he will appear the wild and one dimensional fighter he got by being at the lower weights.

Floyd won't deal with him anywhere near like Marquez did IMO, but he'll do the right things after a tricky first couple of rounds and then win on points fairly comfortably.

Also, let's also remember he doesn't just 'struggle with technicians' just like Arguello didn't always struggle with movers.

Barrera was a complete fighter. Cotto, whilst not as talented as he needed to be when making adjustments to his outlook on fighting during and after the Mosley fight, was no come forward slugger either.

But some quality fighters can stay poised against his swarming southpaw attack and pick him off. Some even has the resiliency to outfight him. I imagine Floyd will go for a performance similar to his one over Marquez rather than the one against Shane.

After all of our debates, all of the words, the hours of discussing it, the rants you've had to put up with, I concede :bowdown

Floyd will win. But not because he beat Marquez or because he's similar to JMM. ;-)

I'm still not certain him beating Manny conclusively would make him a greater fighter than Pacman either.

 

If Cotto hadn't had such a mong in his corner I think he could have made that fight with Pac a lot closer. He might have lost a decision, but he'd have done some good work.

 

Please elaborate further DFT :good

He couldn't have done much IMO. He had to be in survival mode or would've got sparked IMO. The 4th round knockdown was the only time I've genuinely seen Cotto dropped by a shot (the round before was a flash knockdown and not significant IMO) and I think backing up and not allowing Manny to punch through him as much was the best he could do.

I think in the 6th he took a vicious beating towards the end around against the ropes, despite trying all his defensive nuances. Cotto is a quality fighter, one of my favourites but he just isn't at that level technically.

Marquez is.