Can Pac rebound...

Floyd is top dog so long as he stays active. Pac must beat marquez in a rematch then beat Floyd or Martinez

So in other words no he cant

 

Pacquiao vs Marquez 3, a week later and another look

Paul Magno | Nov 21, 2011 | Comments 6


by Charles R. Horgan

I will admit that when I first watched Juan Manuel Marquez vs Manny Pacquiao 3, I was pretty drunk and in a restaurant filled with screaming fight fans. Such a place is great for meeting fellow boxing nuts, but horrible for objective scoring. So today, thanks to a bizarre problem with the cable box at work, I got to watch the entire fight in HD with no sound whatsoever.

Hardcore boxing nuts and those of you on our own BTBC fan forum, just stop reading and send me your hate mail now, because I scored it a draw, with a possible sway of 1 point to Manny Pacquiao if I scored round 10 for him instead of for Marquez. Round 10 was the only round, among many incredibly close rounds, that I thought could be scored a draw and wouldn’t feel like a lazy judge.

First off, this was an incredible fight. It seems like it’s been a long time since either fighter has really been challenged (at least if you ignore Mayweather vs. Marquez), and this was easily the most technical, action packed fight I’ve seen all year. I loved it. If Floyd fell off the planet and Marquez and Pacquiao just fought each other twice a year for the next 3 years, well that would be fine, probably. Each fight has been thrilling and close and people can’t shut up about them.

The Boxing Tribune scored the fight 115-113 in favor of Marquez. I can see that, maybe. Some people said 116-112 for Marquez? I don’t see it. I also don’t see the same difference for Pacquiao. This fight was that close.

I was incredibly relieved when I listened to the Body Blow post-fight podcast by D. Andrew when he said that he scored the fight similarly. Without the ability to watch a replay for an entire week, I was stuck looking at our message boards where people were saying that Marquez was robbed and won the fight by 2 or more rounds.

Well that’s crazy.

Marquez looked great. Juan Manuel Marquez is an amazing fighter and an absolutely great Mexican fighter. Marquez was never hurt, he never ran away and he landed some excellent bombs.

But Marquez did not win this fight. The biggest argument I seem to be seeing is that Pacquiao cannot be given the benefit of the doubt for his aggression if it is not effective. I absolutely agree with this. Many of us went into this fight thinking of Marquez vs. Mayweather, and of Pacquiao’s last few fights and we thought that Marquez would get flattened in a whirlwind of punches. This didn’t happen, Marquez boxed smart and he wasn’t overwhelmed. In fact, Marquez stayed in range and kept Pacquiao from making any sustained attacks. The problem is, during these attacks, Pacquiao did land some good shots, even if Marquez kept him off balance and fired back.

Don’t be fooled by compubox. Ever. As stated in the Bodyblow podcast “the stats may not tell the full truth, but they do tell a story” but in my scoring of the replay I threw compubox out. I avoided watching anything else on the screen. I’ve seen the numbers, and I’ll be hard pressed to find 15 real scoring punches landed by either fighter in any round. With the sound off you get stuck relying on what you can see (when Tony Weeks isn’t in front of the camera, that is) and without the sound of smacking leather, what I saw was a lot of shots that landed on elbows, bounced off of gloves and landed just short. While I was impressed on fight night with Marquez’s body attack, I found that lots of what I felt were scoring blows then seemed to land on the elbows now. Furthermore, I saw that Pacquiao frequently landed a straight left to the body, something that I didn’t seem to notice the first time through. What began swaying me in Pacquiao’s favor during many of the rounds was that even though Pacquiao’s aggression had been muted somewhat, he still found success with a fast straight left that he throws like a jab and some lead right hooks.

Marquez did land a lot of nice, clean shots throughout the fight. I’m in love with the extreme slow motion camera and Marquez can really make me clap with sheer joy when he comes out of a flurry with a picture perfect right hand. But to me, one or two eye-catching right hands don’t win the round if the other fighter is sneaking in his own power punches. I scored rounds 2 and 4 for Pacquiao because even though Marquez got the sweet replays, I saw Pacquiao sneak in his straight lefts through the gloves once every 45 seconds or so. In a fight this close, that can make the difference.

Rounds 1, 5 and 6 were the only rounds where I felt there was a clear winner. Round 1 was taken by Marquez because of a solid flurry to Pacquiao’s body and Pacquiao’s inability to land anything meaningful.

Round 5 was a clear Marquez round as Marquez stayed within range and landed on Pacquiao over and over with solid, quality shots even though Pacquiao wasn’t being dominated and landed some of his own.

Round 6 was almost the complete opposite of round 5 as Pacquiao landed the good blows while Marquez only found slight success although he remained competitive.

The only serious damage in the fight was done by an accidental clash of heads that busted Pacquiao’s eyebrow, but aside from that, both men were very good at neutralizing each other’s attacks. Those that say that Pacquiao looked below average forget that below average fighters get knocked out by Marquez. Below average Pacquiao from the first fight gets taught a boxing lesson by Marquez. The fact that Pacquiao didn’t need a knockdown (or three) to eke out a decision says something about his boxing ability, even if he didn’t get the catastrophic knockout or dominating win many experts predicted.

Marquez is awesome, and either he has Pacquiao just about figured out, or he gained some durability with his move up in weight. If we don’t have to wait 4 years for a rematch, Marquez may be able to take this decisively, especially if he mixes some more offense. Some people say that he was always fighting off of the back foot. I didn’t feel like this was true. Going into a Pacquiao fight, you know that Pacquiao is going to come forward. Marquez never retreated. He backed up just enough to keep himself within his most effective punching distance and he did so smartly. Marquez isn’t a runner and he had some wonderful short right hands in the exchanges that gave him rounds 8 and 9 on my card. I simply love to watch him fight.

 

No.

 

He will give it a go. But there are superior BOXERS than Pacquiao note boxers not brawlers

Like Marquez and Floyd.he loses to these 2. 9 times out of 10

 

Yeah i believe he is still no.1

FMJ wants top spot, gotta fight him for it. Unless something drastic happens, like Pac losing bad and FMJ dominating great competition, as unlikely as that seems.

 

FMJ is top, what did pacquiao do to even earn top spot ? its just the last i heard mayweather has continued to fight top competition for 15 years now, looked sensational, and to top it off has not lost a bout thus far?

 

I doubt it. He didn't seem to have much basketball prowess from what I have seen of him on the court.

 

A close fight with Mayweather win or lose will gain him a lot of his credibility back.

I would like Manny to be P4P #1 so that Mayweather can take it by beating him and there can't be credible excuses. Its better if Manny is still viewed as a beast that Mayweather overcomes.

 

Not as long as Mayweather is around. Pacquiao should have been #2 Pound for Pound going in to the Marquez fight based on recent preformances and boxing skills. He is starting to catch up with Duran as the most overrated boxer in history.

 

Thanks, P. That's what I call well-written objective observation.

 

10 times out of 10.

 

Sensational?? Like PAC Floyd has has a few less than stellar performances in fights he was expected to dominate a lot easier.

A few yrs ago after Floyd won a split decision over DLH at 154 and then won a 10 round TKO over a Hatton moving up to 147 everyone was calling Floyd over rated.... Especially AFTER PAC faced the same opposition and completely annihilated them in a fraction of the time it took Floyd to squeak out wins.

Styles make fights... I know, I know:roll: Sounds cliche'.... however it couldn't be more true. Just because Floyd struggled with Oscar and Ricky and PAC dominated them, doesn't mean PAC would dominate Floyd.

And just because Floyd had an easy time with Juan a couple years ago and PAC struggled for the 3rd time doesn't mean Floyd would have an easy night when and if he ever fights Manny.

A lot of variables need to be factored into the equation that is "Floyd vs Manny". It's not really clear who is over all the better fighter. We know who is the more technical boxer...who has the more "classic boxer" style.. but in terms of the over all better fighter...that's still unclear.

Both have shown dominance against their opposition... both have shown struggles but neither have faced a style like their own... hopefully we get to see these two square off in 2012.

 

I think it is fair to say Floyd is the better all around fighter he has shown that.. He does not fight the same guy every time where as Manny does.

 

Floyd has proven to be the better all around "BOXER"....no one ever questions that. But PAC has had far more success against a list of stronger opposition that doesn't make Floyd's resume, that are threaded throughout Manny's.

PAC in my opinion is more dynamic with the qualities he does have. Floyd is more refined...more controlled but PAC has different qualities which Floyd doesn't exhibit. A lot of the contrast we see between the two have to do with purely working with a completely different foundation and therefore have produced completely opposite styles.

The name of the game is boxing however......Some of the most successful boxers were NOT the most technically solid pugilist. PAC has a lot of natural gifts that he's getting the most out of with the team he has surrounding him. He'll never have that classic boxer style but who's to say if he did that he would have made history like he has with his very unorthodox style?

 

the only way he can get it back is by beating Floyd or Martinez or brutally KO'ing Marquez, not gonna happen