The Wildcard style not working for Khan: Inside game = eating uppercuts and bodyshots

Discussion in 'British Boxing Forum' started by shaunster101, Dec 11, 2011.


  1. shaunster101

    shaunster101 Yido Full Member

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    Just some thoughts of the weaknesses of the style that Roach has Pac and Khan fighting out of.

    It seems to me that under Roach, Pac and Khan have not learned how to fight on the inside at all.

    In place of any inside game, when a fighter gets inside both seem to adopt an identical defence, which I assume is of Roach's doing - they tuck their arms in to their chest and completely cover their face with the gloves. This means:

    - They can't see punches coming at them
    - They can't get their own shots off
    - They are extremely vulnerable to uppercuts, body shots and wide looping hooks around the guard


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    The last point is interesting, because it's now being reported that Khan may have suffered a perforated eardrum last night. I believe this is the same injury Pac sustained against Cotto, who like Peterson last night, was exploiting this poor defence with wide hooks to the side of the head (same shot that Martinez threw around Barker's guard and injured his ear).

    The difference between this style for Pac and Khan is simply that Pac is a much better fighter. As well as being far more accurate and powerful (which deters fighters from coming inside) Pac has far superior footwork, can get in and out very quickly, can handle a firefight at medium range and, most importantly - doesn't need a lot of space and time to reset his attack. Therefore Pacquiao's skills (for the most part) brush over the flaws in the style.

    Khan, although fast of hand, doesn't have the same combination of power, accuracy and angles that Pacquiao uses to bamboozle his opponents and prevent them from coming in. This makes him a LOT easier to walk down, as he is happy to throw a combo of punches and your gloves and move away, meaning that his opponent can keep walking forward and applying pressure.

    This causes Khan problems, because it seems to me that once he fires off his shots he needs to get back out of range and reset before coming back in. His method of doing this is to circle the wing REALLY widely, which is very predictable and if his opponent is still coming forward it makes it easy to cut off his exit by throwing hooks at where Khan is moving to (see when Maidana caught him). Even if they do not catch him clean, it forces him to cover up and slow down, meaning that his opponent is now in Khan's chest throwing uppercuts, bodyshots and hooks. Then we all know what happens - he cant fight his way out and resorts to pushing or pulling his opponents head down. Refs will be all over that **** now

    THIS makes Khan a very limited fighter in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, if you want to stand there and box him, Khan will beat you. I'm confident there's few fighters who can simply out box him. BUT . . .

    We have now seen that if you apply pressure to Khan you can work your way inside and outwork him. Hell, Lamont Peterson is not a pressure fighter, but he found out early that outboxing wasn't going to work - and he discovered how much success you could have just by chasing him down. Now imagine Khan in the ring with a real pressure fighter with a decent chin and good power. I just see them walking through Khan as of right now.

    I think Roach needs to do some serious work to address these huge gaps in Khan's game.
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  2. sosolid4u09

    sosolid4u09 4 8 15 16 23 42 banned Full Member

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    Your really proud of this post.... Posting it in the brit forum aswel now :lol:
    You must have forgotten the general is not the place for boxing discussions.

    I agree with what your saying :good
     
  3. Lazarus

    Lazarus Realist Full Member

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    The good thing is, Amir likes to learn man. I'm sure after his defeat, just like he did last time, he'll see what he did wrong and try to improve as much as possible.

    Despite losing, controversially, I think he'd come back to beat Peterson in the rematch. What do you guys think?

    Good post, by the way, Shaun.
     
  4. Pug1list

    Pug1list Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Good post, I agree with your points.
     
  5. shaunster101

    shaunster101 Yido Full Member

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    :rofl

    Busted :oops:

    I realise that this would probably be a better place for discussion - mainly because I'd like to hear the input of more knowledgeable posters, rather than someone saying 'KHAN WAS ROBBED'
     
  6. shaunster101

    shaunster101 Yido Full Member

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    Do you think Roach is the right person to address these gaps in Khan's game Laz?
     
  7. sosolid4u09

    sosolid4u09 4 8 15 16 23 42 banned Full Member

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    Laz i don't think khan likes to learn.

    He keeps brawling when hit. It really pissed me off. When hit he just starts brawling like an idiot, instead of sticking to his game plan. I don't understand it. He did it against maidana and again yesterday. Full credit to Lamont but khan showed tremendous flaws in there, flaws he's shown in patches in the last 5 fights. He should have learnt from the maidana fight where it almost cost him.

    He improved a lot after the prescott loss. But after the fight he knew he ****ed up and knew what he did wrong. Hes not making the right noises after this loss. Kept blaming the ref
     
  8. shaunster101

    shaunster101 Yido Full Member

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    I also don't think Khan should be moving up to 147 anytime soon. He was 148ish in the ring last night, he was overpowered by a fighter weighing 154ish - what's going to happen when he has these same vulnerabilities against fighters come in at 160, perhaps higher
     
  9. Lazarus

    Lazarus Realist Full Member

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    I'm not sure, I can't really say, but based on his fighters, Pacquiao, Khan, Chavez Jr, Linares.. I see the same developing style with all of them.

    The same in and out motion with 3-4 punch combinations then get out, circle, use angles.

    I've actually had a hunch about it for a while, really. Roach teaches one style well but leaves his fighters significantly flawed in others.

    Khan REALLY needs to stop relying on his feet to get out of trouble. Like Slip said, it'll be his undoing and last night, it sort of was.

    Honestly, I think Khan has great potential, still. He showed great grit and I think going down the line, he'll be a better fight, but a loss was bound to happen at some point (albeit one Amir Khan could of (should of imo) won, though).

    Main thing I'm disappointed about is not being able to see that big fight with Brook and Mayweather.

    I'm sure even Brook and Hearn and kicking themselves thinking there goes our big payday. :lol:
     
  10. chatty

    chatty Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Roach isn't really a defensive minded coach, most of his boxers are offensive and use movement to get out of harms way when in trouble or push more offence on their opponent i.e hitting them three times for the one taken.

    At this stage I can't see Roach changing his training techniques, he may ask them to make subtle changes but no major changes are coming under his guidance.Ppacquaio is probably too old to really change his fighting style now so I expect a lot of the same from him but Khan and Linares can still adapt and make major changes.

    Thing is Roach is a top coach despite the latter half of this year not looking too great.
     
  11. Lazarus

    Lazarus Realist Full Member

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    That's 'in his blood', like he said. That's his instinct and something a LOT of fighters do, it's not idiotic to do so. Slowly but surely, Khan will control that. Compared to his Prescott days, he's put that aggression down a lot, don't you think?

    He does. I'm sure he will do. I put it down to his trainer, really.
     
  12. GlassJawAnalyst

    GlassJawAnalyst Active Member Full Member

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    Khan takes too many punches voluntarily, doesn't cover up properly, it good to be macho but taking these shots is draining on the body, and when Khan did have chances like in the 9th I think when he hurt Peterson he didn't have the energy to capitalise.
     
  13. dftaylor

    dftaylor Writer, fanatic Full Member

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    Roach has done brilliantly with Khan. Khan's problem is that HE opts to stand in front of his opponent and cover up, rather than step away when under attack.

    He's just not very thoughtful about how he mixes attack and defence, and that's what causes him problems more so than his ear muffs.
     
  14. sosolid4u09

    sosolid4u09 4 8 15 16 23 42 banned Full Member

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    hes come on leaps and bounds. unrecognisable from a few years ago.
    but his attitude prior to this fight was similar to his attitude before the prescott loss. talking about 147 all the time and mayweather and pac etc. i appreciate he is probably being asked those questions all the time but you cant help feeling like he was looking ahead too much.

    the ''in his blood'' thing is a good point. but hes not really built for that type of brawl he engages in. For khan its the worst possible way to fight imo. it makes him a hell of an exciting fighter to watch though.
     
  15. chatty

    chatty Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Another peoblem for Khan that I'm not sure can be changed is his composure, when things aren't going his way he just reacts badly to it.