I was being kind, as there is some guys on there who know their stuff, but it's hard to find any of their posts due to the number of Tapout T-Shirt wearing fannies talking pish.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2efw8_sergei-kharitonov-vs-robert-heleniu_sport Have you seen his fight with Hellenius? What his mechanics, naturally, Sergei is a mixed martial artists. His ring intelligence is simply zero. He just doesn't seem capable of making the separation between the two disciplines. He uses numerous tactics that whilst would work fine in MMA are useless or illegal in boxing.
Haven't seen this, actually. Thanks. It raises an interesting question. Who's more of a "boxer": an MMA guy who competes at a high amateur level with poor technique, or an MMA guy with very good technique who hasn't competed with amateur boxers? (For the record, even some MMA fighters have better boxing technique than a young Foreman or Max Baer).
For me the lata. The description of the art form has to FIT the person that is practising it. (The obvious expectation is though that if you fight in that particular style then your professional background includes the said experience) No one calls Gonzaga a kick boxer because he landed a left high kick on Cro Cop. Likewise Brock isn't called a sub-mission wrestler because he subbed Carwin with an arm triangle. The problem with MMA currently is the martial art forms have merged to produce a 'new' martial art. Where as in the past a fighter was noted for his background and described as such those demarcations don't exist any more. So when fans see a guy like JDS with heavy hands throwing punches they gush over his 'boxing', when in reality he has poor boxing technique and no complimentary boxing background to speak of.
Footwork is what will give JDS the edge in defence and offence. Reem will have difficulty with his movement and he'll find it hard to let his hands go which in turn will make it harder to grab him to fire off knees and time him to land kicks.
True, but Gonzaga used kickboxing to beat Crocop, just as Brock used submission wrestling to beat Carwin. They just weren't very good at it. So I'd have no problem with talking about "Gonzaga's kickboxing" or "Brock's submission wrestling" even if they're not (very good) kickboxers or submission wrestlers. Also, where does this leave not-very-good amateur boxers who have worse technique than elite MMA competitors? Do they stop being boxers...? :think
Not concerned about amateurs. It's called that for a reason. :yep Now if it were Pro's then we have a problem! :yikes
I'm sure plenty of "tomato cans" (in quotation marks because it seems a bit disrespectful) have worse technique than top MMA fighters, yet we still consider them boxers.
How many MMA fighters can you name with Pro boxing technique that supercede and current or past pro boxers? :huh
Hmm.... [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VG5My-ar6V4[/ame] ...In all seriousness, Penn and Arlovski (to name two) can probably box with better technique than the lowest-level professional boxers. I can't list many low-level boxers by name, but I've seen quite a few "opponents" for prospects with less-than-stellar technique. (Not that I think that I can do better, mind you).
You got to name names dude. Amateurs don't count. And neither do guys who know ones heard of. I agree on Penn and Arlovski. Although AA's chin is so bad he'd never make a half decent journeyman. Penn on the other hand could be good enough to be a journeymen and possibly even a gatekeeper. Good hands and a sound chin.
That was my point, though. Nobody's heard of a lot of professional fighters because some of them are quite bad. If you're talking journeymen, then you're right -- very few MMA fighters measure up. But there's no rule that you need to be good before you're allowed to turn pro. Once in a while, "professional" boxers are just local tough guys with a few amateur fights who turned pro, lost, and were then fed to some low-level prospect.
Also, I missed this. The further back you go, the worse the skills look from any fighter caught on film. Most of the journeymen in Edison fight films look atrocious. Unsurprising, considering that they'd just evolved from something that resembled MMA.
The Nordic Fraud didn´t do so well against Kharitonov [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=431Y5aiz8TE[/ame] EDIT: Didn´t see that this had been posted already