Ray Robinson Jan 1, 1955 to Dec 31 1960?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by ripcity, Jan 31, 2012.


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  1. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Is this the worst thread ever to be on the classic forum?
     
    lufcrazy, Jan 31, 2012
    lufcrazy, Jan 31, 2012
    #31
  2. MadcapMaxie

    MadcapMaxie Guest

    Absolutley not this man "ripshitty" has enlightened me to the truth, SRR really wasn't all that great how else could he lose to such bums like Turpin, Fullmer and Basilio. Now that ive been enlightened ive got to say Harry Greb is another one of these posers i mean losing to Tiger Flowers twice at only 32? and dont give me that "was blind in one eye" ****.
     
    MadcapMaxie, Feb 1, 2012
    MadcapMaxie, Feb 1, 2012
    #32
  3. Conn

    Conn Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    Anything after Robinson came back in 1955 from his retirement shouldn't be dwelled upon or held against him.
    He'd achieved everything already. Welterweight champion. Middleweight champion. He had challenged for the Light-heavyweight crown.
    He took 2 1/2 years off. He was retired, and already hailed as perhaps the greatest fighter that ever walked the earth.

    I was actually under the impression that he only came back because he realised his dancing career wouldn't be making him the kind of money he was accustomed to.

    There's no good reason why his record after 1952 should be viewed as negative. He was a fighter from the previous generation. Fullmer was about 10 years younger than him, and he ended up knocked senseless in the rematch.
     
    Conn, Feb 1, 2012
    Conn, Feb 1, 2012
    #33
  4. kingfisher3

    kingfisher3 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    i view robinson like duran three careers, one where they dominated their natural weight class and one where they stuck with and beat bigger guys, and being shot but fighting for money.
    the first makes a top fighter, the second an atg(dislike that phrase but seems apt here)and the third completely irrelevant.
    ripcity - would you rate him higher if he retired as an undefeated welter?
     
    kingfisher3, Feb 1, 2012
    kingfisher3, Feb 1, 2012
    #34
  5. Bill Butcher

    Bill Butcher Erik`El Terrible`Morales Full Member

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    Thats ****in ridiculous, you must be pulling my plunger, surely.
     
    Bill Butcher, Feb 1, 2012
    Bill Butcher, Feb 1, 2012
    #35
  6. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    It pains me seeing this thread taking up space on the forum.

    Can it be moved to the general? Ripshitty has a line of thinking more suited for the general.
     
    lufcrazy, Feb 1, 2012
    lufcrazy, Feb 1, 2012
    #36
  7. ripcity

    ripcity Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    This is the best answer to my thread. While I doubt from the footage that Robinson was washed up. You made the suguestion that the guys he lost to were in your words some elite fighters. I think they were very good, but if we were talking in today's standers saying Carmen Basilio & Gene Fullmr were = Ray Robinson is like saying Miguel Coto is = Floyd Mayweather.
     
    ripcity, Feb 1, 2012
    ripcity, Feb 1, 2012
    #37
  8. ripcity

    ripcity Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    You wouldn't rate him #1 either. Allow me to explane. Robinson's first loss was to Jake LaMotta almost 73 years to the day. Robinson had an impresive record of 40 (29) -0 - 0. The thing was he was 4 years away from winning the welterweight championship. While he may have been deserving and would have won the welterweight and even lightweight championship. He wasn't champion. History shines brightest on the past champions. His comtemparies known as the black murders row. Wereall elete boxers who history almost forgot. Without a championship, he'd be one of them. In this case Robinson drops from #4 where I have him.
    Now had Robinson contuned on through his welterweight career. His ranking would improve. He'd be 109 (71) -1-1. I'd have him at a close #2 to Benny Leonard. Who despite not having as good a record in his good years 71 (63)-5 (4) - 0, had more key wins than Robinson.
    Had Robinson stayed retired after 1952. That's a tough call. He wouldn't slip in my rankings, and he could gain ground. His losses to Turpin and Maxim don't help his case.
     
    ripcity, Feb 1, 2012
    ripcity, Feb 1, 2012
    #38
  9. Momus

    Momus Boxing Addict Full Member

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    You are seriously downgrading Robinson because he didn't hold the welterweight title during a period when the world titles were frozen?!?

    Sam Langford never won a title and is high on most historian's all-time p4p lists. Ezzard Charles is close to being the consensus choice for best ever at 175, despite never fighting for a title at that weight.

    Even if Robinson retired before beating Bell, he'd still be ranked higher than Zivic, Servo and Cochrane (the 3 champions who preceeded him).
     
    Momus, Feb 1, 2012
    Momus, Feb 1, 2012
    #39
  10. ripcity

    ripcity Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Where do you rank Langford and Charles? I have pre champion Charles at #5 had better wins than pre champion Robinson. and would move up.
     
    ripcity, Feb 1, 2012
    ripcity, Feb 1, 2012
    #40
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