How does Vitali do against Liston´s opponents in your opinion ?

If anything, Lewis deserves extra credit for prevailing through the severe adversity of their brutal war, especially after the vicious beating he took in the first 2 rounds. For Lennox to turn it around, by smashing Vitali with pressure roughhousing on the inside & battering his body/kidneys at the start of the next 4 rounds, was remarkable to say the least. All while being 38 years old & undertrained.

 

How anyone wouldn't rate Vitali as at least Lennox's second best win is beyond me. I'm not even a big fan of the guy.

 

:rofl

 

Considering where he was at the time, KO1 Golota was as impressive.

 

I think it's arguable, on the basis that Vitali isn't very good.

 

The Big Cat was a similar size to Sanders (minus the flab), and probably hit harder punch for punch. Outside of Clay/Ali, it's probably the trickiest test for Vitali, especially considering that he would have to beat him twice. Williams was very athletic, and a quick starter. It would pose a lot more difficult questions than the vast majority of Vitali's opponents.

Even if Williams landed early though, the smart money would be on Vitali's chin to weather the storm and wear Williams down.

Machen could have made Vitali look bad, but I don't see how he would win. Patterson wouldn't be robust enough to compete with Vitali. Martin, Folley and the rest wouldn't trouble him either.

 

:roll:

 

And its fine to speculate on who each of thinks would win in head to fights... But there are too many flaws with using a system that involves rating men on a head to head basis. Joe Louis is my #2 and Marciano is at #3, even though there are several fighters that I think might have beaten them both... Its legacies and career accomplishments that dictate most people's ratings and its a system that I happen to agree with. Vitali is a formidable foe and one who's had a fairly decent career.. But he lost to the two best opponents he faced, never truly established himself as the true champion and has beaten opposition that I think is pretty **** poor.. Now, be that as it may, I still think that his physical and stylistic attributes would make him a nightmare for even some of the greatest heavyweights, but its not something I can assign a rating based on..

 

He would roll over Patterson, quickly TKO an older Williams, and have his way with a smallish Folley and Machen as neither had much of a punch or were aggressive.




Ali was great, but he had a lot of trouble with a good jabber in Doug Jones , and that match happened close enough to the Liston match. So did the Cooper match. Vitali could win vs the 64' Ali..

 

Seamus continues to offer the right analysis, even if its not popular. Yes--Ali then Clay was rather inconstant prior to the Liston fight.

 

where do you rate Iron MGT?

 

Williams KO'd string bean Earnie Terrell and absolutely no one else of note. Behind Lyle, he remains the most over-rated entity on this board.

What exactly does the term "athletic" refer to? Is it his physique? Perhaps some capacity in a sport that is not boxing? In the ring, he looks herky-jerky, stilted and ungraceful. Is that the "athletic" part? Just curious.

 

I'm not suggesting he'd beat Vitali - only that there's a good chance he'd give him a rough ride like Sanders (or indeed Williams did to Liston). It's not really too relevant to get into a lengthy debate about whether Williams was avoided, what would have happened had he fought Patterson or Ingo, and all that stuff. Suffice to say that he was a very dangerous fighter for a few rounds, but lacked the all round skills (or chin) to be great.

"Athletic" is a bit of a lazy term really, which admittedly could mean anything. In this context I'm meaning a guy who relied on physical attributes (speed, strength, reflexes) rather than boxing skill. Things like the way he was able to double up on the hook with great speed and leverage - not a lot of heavyweights can do this effectively, no matter how well schooled.