I am not sure. Had he won people would have said Leonard was washed up and rusty anyway like they were saying before the fight. My question always was how would a Hagler of 1985 have done against Leonard? I think that Hagler would have stopped Ray.
His legacy was based on him being underrated. All in all he was a great fighter and one of the best middleweights to win/defend the title. Leonard was a limelight hog, and it's just his nature to do so. Hagler took the darkhorse route, and just like Sugar Ray it too was Marvin's nature to do so. He wasn't denied greatness, he just played into his supposed role as the underrated fighter. Think about it, in how many fights was Marvin purported to be "that guy"? The guy with the chip on his shoulder that always appears frustrated with the public because he thinks they don't appreciate him. That was the promoter's and the public's angle on Hagler. Hagler wasn't denied greatness, he just played into his part.
I think I agree with what you're saying (sorry, a little punchy this morning). I always thought that Hagler went overboard with the underrated, disrespected, chip on his shoulder angle. It caused me to not like him much at the time. 20 odd years after the fact when I can just watch his fights and don't have to listen to all the rhetoric, he is one of my very favorite fighters. A truly great fighter. One thing I do think is underrated is his boxing ability. I love watching his late 70's fights against the Philly fighters.
When I first saw Hagler's fights; his 'chip' (or whatever we're calling it) was what I didn't like about him, and it just got annoying. Afterwards, I came to appreciate how great of a fighter he really was by separating all that silly spectacle from the science of fighting. Marvin's bout against Mugabi is one of my personal favorites. Maybe Hagler needed that chip to stay competitive. I dunno, that's just silly speculation from my side. Oh, and I'm 100% with ya on the Philly fights. Philadelphia had a really interesting boxing culture.
I disagree. People should judge a fight by the FIGHT itself, not by the result on boxrec. Thus, if Leonard make it to the top 10, so does Hagler in my opinion. Oh and I had Hagler winning the fight by a point.
No he wasn't. His last fight he wasn't given the benifit of being the defending champ but his legacy was already cemented. If he not considered the best middlewieght of all time he's in the top 3.
His career at middleweight over time earned him his greatness.However, his stupidity at allowing Leonard that 12 round distance, and giving up the first four rounds hurt him in that particular endeavor.
It seems Hagler gets more talked about today for the way his career ended, than the extent to which Monzon is remembered (at least by the English speaking public). He's certainly not forgotten and overlooked, and maybe he would be if he'd cleanly passed Monzon and ridden off into the sunset triumphant. By the way, and for whatever it's worth, technically Marv DOES officially hold the record for most successful defenses of the Undisputed World MW Title at 12 (also consecutive), as Monzon was only recognized by the WBA for three of his defenses. Valdes I was a reunification, so the argument can be made in that case that only Valdes II was a true defense of the undisputed championship between them, which would bring Carlos up to ten defenses of the unified title at 160. Rodrigo proved from 1974 to 1976, then against Monzon, that he was a far more viable alternative to Carlos for the WBC than Rondon was to Bob Foster for the WBA (especially with Rodrigo's stunning stoppage of Briscoe to win that WBC belt). There's no doubt that Bob crushes Rondon at all times during Vincente's 1971 WBA Title run. Valdes was good enough from mid 1971 to mid 1976 that we can ask what might have happened if he and Monzon had squared off prior to 1976. Hagler, by contrast, was a consensus P4P best in the world before Ray tripped him up.
I to agree with CzarKyle, also I feel if he would have continued fighting for a few more fights or another year it would have changed some folks perspective. It kinda sucks that he stopped boxing after losing that poor decision to SRL. MMH was no doubt a great.
He was great because of his reign, in a very competitive era of the earlyl and mid 1980s. The legends he beat like Hearns and Duran were from lower weight classes, so he beating them compared to Ray is not that impressive. Although his effort with Hearns was great. Hagler struggled with Roldan and Mugabi but he beat them, and Hamsho, Obel, Antuofermo and Sibson were strong competitors and Marvin won easily. A great yes. No doubt. He was dominant and not afraid of anyone. The only thing to me which would have proven something is had he moved up and fought Spinks. Many people think he would have no chance, but Marvin had 60 fights and Spinks 25 or so.