Froch says he has a better legacy then cazaghe

realsoulja I'll get back to you on the Calzaghe - Hopkins, since you believed I've ducked your points, let me go through it one more time...

That's a matter of opinion, you have yours, I have mine.

So this breaks it down, I made my points, you've made yours. I agreed with some of what you had to say, and disagreed. You agreed with some of what I've said, and disagreed. You need to stop going on about 'schooling' and 'ducking', it adds nothing to the debate.

Then you went on to contradict your own point

How does Kabery Salem having success on one night, mean that Froch would if he fought Calzaghe if both were prime? How is Carl Froch similar to Kabery Salem?

Do you see the contradiction?




Onto your next point

Then you go on to say

So Lacy has an 'average right hand' but was also a better fighter than Kabery Salem, and was not able to have his moments against Calzaghe
Hence, your argument and logic is flawed, on a peak night for Joe Calzaghe, he won't get floored by Carl Froch, barring luck he'll win a wide and dominant decision, how the fight will play out is a matter of opinions, you have yours, I have mine.


Now onto your questions

It's not quite what I said, but I do believe that the horrible performance that Froch put in against Ward, where Ward was always able to get off before him, move around Froch with ease and beat Froch to the punch consistently, showed me that enough that I believe Calzaghe would have little difficulty beating Froch. That's my take on it, if you disagree, then that's your opinion, it's a subjective sport remember.

Fair play, at least you admitted to it.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3PYeHp-rCg[/ame]



If you have time, watch some of this video to see what I mean about Calzaghe fighting in flurries, using lateral movement, and measuring distance very well. That should help to explain the points I'm trying to make about how a Froch-Calzaghe fight would go, and no I'm not saying that Froch and Lacy are similar!

So once again, how does that explain what would happen in a fight between Calzaghe and Froch? I didn't say a southpaw style negates an orthodox fighters jab, I said:

Calzaghe was a flurry fighter at times who overwhelmed people in a way that an orthodox fighter never would have gotten away with because he was able to come at them from that awkward southpaw stance that negates an othodox fighter’s jab and cross.

The point being that Calzaghe had a unique style, not purely because he was a southpaw, but Calzaghe had his own awkward and unique style, and he used upper body movement well.

Antonio Tarver outjabbed Roy Jones, see how Pacquaio dealt with Cotto's jab? Not that these fighters are in any way similar, but it shows that it depends on the fighters in question, and I believe Calzaghe would pose problems for Froch in terms of working his jab, and his lead right hands.

haha it's hard to take you seriously when you constantly speak like this

Hope that helps, and clears up any notions of ducking.

 

Typical froch baiting for attention while getting a chance to slam Calzagh- e same old

 

You weren't wrong, however you were trying to play down Calzaghe's win over Hopkins, you know you were. I had to make you appreciate where both fighters were at each point in their careers when they met.

I'm not, but it's true that prime undefeated Kessler is a better than Glen Johnson, and blown up WW Felix Trinidad. At least Kessler actually was a legit SMW! You can do this to any fighter, you can do it to Joe's record as well, however what I've stated there is the truth.

It is remarkable how Hopkins has remained competitive into his forties, he made the best of use of his attributes, and has cemented his legacy as a true ATG. Calzaghe didn't have these attributes, like RJJ, with Joe's style, he would not have been able to remain competitive into his forties, that kind of style means you decline rapidly as your physical attributes decline, not mentioning his hand problems.

You have your opinions about how you believe Hopkins to be a far superior fight to Calzaghe, I have mine. We'll leave it at this.

 

Thanks Soulja. Tearing down walls and building bridges is what its all about.

Ah. You giveth and you taketh away.

I think I voted correctly, as Calzaghe, despite the overall level of opposition, does have the best wins of the 2. That combined with him eventually unifying, and being unbeaten and all that makes it a clear cut choice for me.

 

You know Me and you DONT have a disagreement regarding the result of the fight.

We have a disagreement on your flawed and nutthugging reasoning and logic.

You said Calzaghe would beat Froch because Ward beat Froch.
You said Calzaghe would beat Froch better than Ward because Calzaghe is a better fighter than Ward.

This was your flawed reasoning and logic, instead of trying to wiggle your way out of this hole you dug yourself into, just come here and admit you was wrong in your reasoning like a man.

Everyone has an opinion, but your opinion that:-

Calzaghe would beat Froch because Ward beat Froch
and
Calzaghe would beat Froch better than Ward because Calzaghe is a better fighter than Ward
and
Froch wont have his moments in a Calzaghe fight.

These opinions are bull****, dont duck, just admit those opinions are bull****.

Exactly we disagreed, and I proving why my disagreement is logical and correct and your disagreement is bull****.

Your points:-

1. Calzaghe would beat Froch because Ward beat Froch
2. Calzaghe would beat Froch better than Ward, because Calzaghe is better than Ward
3. Froch wont have his moments

Are **** points that are baseless and incorrect, this is where I disagreed, and you are ducking your way out instead of admitting you was incorrect like a man.

So you are saying, styles make fights contridicts with:-

Kabery Salem was able to land a right hand on Calzaghe, and Froch's best weapon is a Lead Right hand. And a Lead right hand is the best punch to land on a southpaw.

How is that a contradiction. Matter of fact I used styles make fights in both statements so it cant be a contradiction. First I was just discussing pure styles, but you thought:

Froch would struggle more with relentless pressure than he would against slickness.

Ward out slicked and used range to school Froch. Wards style very dangerous for Froch.

Kessler went to war with relentless pressure, Froch had his moments. So Kessler's style wasnt as dangerous.

Tell me, how would Calzaghe's relentless barrage or slaps would be more difficult for Froch to deal with than Ward's slickness?

1. Carl Froch is better than Salem.
2. Kabery Salem was able to land a counter right hand on Calzaghe
3. Carl Froch has a better lead right hand that Salem
4. Carl Froch's throws right hands more often than Salem
5. Calzaghe has shown in fights with Hopkins, Shot RJJ, Reid, Mitchell, that he is open to counter right/Lead right hands.

All this shows me, That Froch WILL have his moments refuting you third point, that was Froch wont have his moments.

Go on then, now explain What contradiction?

What point are you making.

A average fighter cant have his moments vs a great fighter?
Ken Norton vs Muhammad Ali
Kirkland Liang vs Roberto Duran

Fourth point of disagreement appears adding to the previous three.

4. On a peak nigh for Joe Calzaghe he wont get floored

Calzaghe was down against Byron Mitchell, Kabery Salem during his peak years.

Finally

Froch has on many occasions been significantly slower than his opponent, Pascal was able to get before him, Kessler was able to get off before him, Taylor was able to get off before him, Andre Dirrell was able to get off before him,

But still Froch had his moments in those fights.

When Ward got off before Froch, Ward closed the distance swifty and used his superior physical strength to push Froch and control Froch. Hence why Froch never had his moments in the Ward fight.

Calzaghe never done this, Calzaghe never closed the distance into an inside fight, Calzaghe would close the distance into a mid range fight, where he would throw a barrage of slaps to outwork his opponent.

Calzaghe cant do it like Ward, Ward didnt give Froch a chance because Ward has that style. Calzaghe would give Froch chances and moments because Calzaghe has that style.

I dont think Calzaghe would move 'around' Froch, I think Calzaghe would be just out of range and use his superior speed to expose mistakes Froch makes.

I havent seen Calzaghe move 'around' any fighter, thats why i asked you to bring me evidence of Calzaghe's lateral movement. But you didnt bring anything.

Ward, however he moved 'around' Froch, He circled left away from Froch's right hand to nullify any of Froch's attack from range.

Calzaghe's movement wont be able to shutdown Froch's offense like Ward did.

Ward beat Froch to the punch, what did Ward do then?

He either made it into a messy inside brawl, or went back out of range.

Ward never gave Froch his moments, but Calzaghe would have to because Calzaghe cant do it like Ward does, and Ward cant do it like Calzaghe does.

Proving that Froch vs Calzaghe would be alot more competitive than Ward vs Froch.

Calzaghe cant do it like Ward, Ward is superior to Calzaghe when it comes to range and mauling.

Why did Froch lose to Ward?

Was it because Ward was beating Froch to the punch?

If that was the case, Kessler, Dirrel, Taylor, Pascal would have won their fights, without giving Froch his moments.

Froch lost to Ward, because Ward never gave Froch that mid range, that opportunity to slug it out.

No matter what Calzaghe does, he would have to give Froch that mid range that opportunity to slug it out.

So no, Ward UD12 Froch, doesnt show that Calzaghe would easily beat Froch.

No problem you got your opinion, I explain my opinion You feel your opinion out weighs mine, I feel my opinion out weighs yours.

I dont see Calzaghe dancing, I didnt even watch the video you posted, because I have seen Calzaghe vs Lacy and Calzaghe never danced around Lacy. But I will probably click your video after I am done writing all this.

Calzaghe is know for flurries and slaps. No need for video evidence, everyone agrees with that.

Now I will watch the video to see if there is any lateral movement.

You want to see lateral movement, watch Michael Nunn vs James Toney or Bernard Hopkins vs Felix Trinidad.

Matter of Fact watch Hopkins in his physical Prime.

I agree Calzaghe did measure distance well against a fighter who had less range and was shorter than him.

However, Calzaghe would always land his 'Flurries' at mid range, Calzaghe didnt have a great inside and outside game, he had a good mid range game. And Froch also has a solid Mid range game. Thus making their styles compatible and giving Froch his moments.

I am glad you say that.

Because in the process you have to accept now that, Calzaghe can only land his flurries at mid range, and at mid range, Froch has a chance to land his own punches thus giving Froch his moments to land on Calzaghe chin which has been shaken by Kabery Salem.

That dont explain Calzaghe vs Froch, that explains a southpaw style doesnt negate a Orthadox fighters jab. You claimed this earlier.

 

You are saying I wasnt wrong :deal

But you suspected me of dissing Calzaghe that is why you tried to mess with me?

Get outta here boi. Dont be suspicious. Be real.

I challenge you to step into the ESB square circle and debate on this topic:-

"Who has the better wins, Calzaghe or Hopkins" on a sepertate thread. Are you up for the challenge?

Look dont make excuses for Calzaghe, Calzaghe didnt want to fight on for whatever reasons, and he is not given respect for it like Hopkins is given it. BHop has what Calzaghe dont, that is mental strength at an old age. Calzaghe went on to sniff coke.

Take the challenge since you are being suspicious of me, take the challenge, make a brand new thread about who has the better wins, and I will come and and school you on how

Hopkins > Calzaghe.

 

If you anyone wondering to know what that

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post was about but is too lazy in reading it, here is just one extract from it that summarises the whole discussion:-

you have to accept now that, Calzaghe can only land his flurries at mid range, and at mid range, Froch has a chance to land his own punches thus giving Froch his moments to land on Calzaghe chin which has been shaken by Kabery Salem.

 

Fair enough. I had to taketh away just a bit. I didn't want to nuthug a forum poster; I think you understand.:thumbsup

 

Calzaghe clearly, but if Froch have beaten every fighter he faced he would have better than Joe, but Ward dominated him, Kessler beat him he got hometown decision against Dirrell so definitely NO he doesnt have better legacy. But credit to him for fighting best opposition in their prime.

 

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Upcoming ESB contender, part time mechanic, known for his suttle but deadly approach gives his scorecard, on Who Dont Know **** about Baaxing!

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12421615&postcount=48

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Former gatekeeper and future P4P poster in the making, the name is enough to tell you about his venomous punch during an ESB debate, he gives his scorecard on who dont know **** about Baaxing!

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12422842&postcount=96

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ATG Poster known for his single jab that leaves his opposition on the backfoot, one example of this: is the following jab thrown at SILENCER, that literally Silenced the SILENCER.

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=341164

SILENCER wasnt able to recover from that legendary Jab. And retired after 2 pages.

He gives his scorecard on Who dont know **** about Baaxing!

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12429109&postcount=159

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No intro is even required, ATG of the ESB square circle, known for his brutal wars with fellow ATG Poster's in HEADBANGER and bailey. And his schooling of SILENCER. He gives his scorecard on Who dont know **** about baaxing!

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12429182&postcount=163

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First Ballot HOF'er also part time Car salesman gives his scorecard on Who dont know **** about Baaxing!

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12424737&postcount=110

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A Scholar and a Gentleman ESB's most dangerously civilised individual, under the radar but everyone listens when he speaks, he gives his scorecard on Who dont know **** about baaxing!

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12436238&postcount=197
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Someone definitely dont know **** about baaxing

 

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Who do you think would win in a Froch vs Calzaghe fight?

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12420713&postcount=27

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What do you mean Froch wont have no chance?

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12420713&postcount=27

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:huh Dont you think Ward is stylistically different to Calzaghe's relentlessness, and Calzaghe's style is more suitable for Froch? -Styles make fights

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12420998&postcount=35

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atschOk you obviously dont understand the concept of styles make fights, let me ask you something else, Dont you think Froch stylistically would have his moments in a Calzaghe fight?

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12423293&postcount=97

:shock:But........--[Knockout Artist interupts]--..

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12420998&postcount=35

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:yikesWhy has Froch got no chance to do absolute nothing in a Calzaghe fight then?

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12421986&postcount=83

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So Calzaghe would beat Froch because Calzaghe is a southpaw?

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12423293&postcount=97

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What did you mean then about the southpaw point?

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12423293&postcount=97

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:rofl So Froch got no chance because Froch hasnt faced a southpaw?

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12428287&postcount=129

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The Southpaw stance negates an orthadox fighters jab and Cross!!!atsch

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12436664&postcount=200

You said it again, read the red son.

atsch

You Dont know **** about Baaxin!:deal

Readers who want to see Part 1 click

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Now re-read that, try and comprehend it, stop misquoting me, then answer the point I actually made.

You quote what I say, but don't actually answer the points I made, it's a sophisticated way of ducking.

 

KO artist. You obviously dont want to go toe to toe, so lets just end this then.

Do you still hold the opinion "Froch wont have no moments" after I schooled you that Froch can possibly have his moments?

Froch can have his moments stylistically, and Froch can have his moments logicaly.

Do you still think Froch has no chance to have any moments?

Because whenever I bring you to your mistake you just say this:

Oh calzaghe can move around the ring aswell
oh calzaghe used to have homo fantasies in the ring as displayed against Hopkins, so Froch got no chance against a fantasy ******

oh Calzaghe had great lateral movement aswell

oh Calzaghe came on strictly come dancing, so he can dance around Froch, Froch wont have 1 moment of success

oh Calzaghe is a southpaw and Froch hasnt fought a top southpaw

oh Calzaghe used to be good at...erm.....how do i say slap without saying slap....erm pittar patter, Froch wont have a moment.

Oh Calzaghe used to sniff coke, so he is crazy, Froch wont have no moments against a crazy intoxicated Zaggers

Oh Calzaghe had footwork

Oh Calzaghe can punch with his left hand hard

Oh Calzaghe had a good chin aswell

AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Shut the **** up.

Do you still hold the opinion, Froch wont have no moments? Answer

 

Now, whilst it's got tedious, I'm just pointing out that you've misquoted my post on Calzaghe, and how his style and stance would cause problems for Froch, that's irritating.

You didn't school me on **** Why are you so desperate to keep throwing that word in? You made your points, I made mine, anyone who's interested can go back across the thread and re-read them.

As I stated before, I don't think Froch poses much of a problem for Calzaghe (both being prime). Barring luck, he wouldn't have his moments.

As I said before, for someone who dislikes Joe Calzaghe so much, you post on an alarmingly high number of threads about him. Why not dedicate more time, posting about fighters that you like?