One Card Short Of A Full Deck: ESB Brit Forum Discussion

His power wasn't that bad IMO, just didn't always use it. Not that he had knockout power, but it was respectable. Whitaker with good relationships with judges, now he's hard to beat.

 

that was quick :yep

 

Hearns with balance.
Tyson staying with Rooney.
SRL being way more active during the 80's. (He's an atg obviously, but could've he been the GOAT? Beating people like Starling, Curry, Mccallum as well as Hagler)

 

Big Frank with stamina, and how to hold and spoil properly

 

Sweet pea could crack a bit, especially in the lower weight classes. I dare say he a couple of spectacular kos in his time:thumbsup

 

Benitez lack of dedication
Abraham's lack of fundamentals
Marquez lack of luck with the judges
Ibeabuchi's lack of medication/support
EnzoMac's lack of proper nutrition

 

Rafael Marquez- Better head movement.

I admit it sounds very simplistic but he was one of my favourite fighters of the last decade, if not the favourite, and though this slight deficiency made his fights a whole lot more gripping to watch, I can't help but feel he might have edged the Vasquez trilogy (forget the 4th fight :twisted with a bit more defensive awareness.

Defence in boxing is always a theme that confuses me a little. Often you can see punch stats where an opponent has landed with a fairly large connect % on a fighter but has lost because of the other fighters better defensive work, which might sound odd to say. For example, JMM-Diaz I being a case of that I feel. Obviously, it's a contact sport so getting hit is to be expected- not everyone can be Mayweather but that isn't to say those who get caught more are defensively poor boxers.

The Marquez brothers are great examples of this IMO. Neither have ever been too difficult to find, Rafa probably more so, but I'd still say they were decent defensive fighters. That's because a lot of the time they partially block or avoid the most dangerous punches being thrown & in doing so, give themselves opportunities to counter. It might not look particularly great on Compubox at the end of the fight but it plays to their strengths and gives them the best chance of implementing the gameplans they come in with.

Now that's me defending Rafa as a defensive fighter but he was the inferior of the 2 brothers in doing this and it did lead to him being caught a lot more than necessary. He shipped a lot vs Vasquez, mainly because of Izzy's strength as an offensive force, but he got hit quite a bit vs Mabuza & Austin when he really didn't need to. It could have been his downfall vs Silence as the South African at a time was in control in the middle rounds but he still managed to get the job done.

It's not a great criticism of him as he had a great career regardless but by slipping punches more comfortably, I think he may have prevailed in some of the fights he end up losing. It would have fitted in with his overall style OK, probably giving him more opportunities to get off counterpunches, but at the end of the day for the excitement his fights generated, maybe for boxing fans it was a blessing in disguise he didn't incorporate it more.

Sorry for the digression on defence halfway through that btw, don't know where that came from

 

Yeah, agreed :good. Very measured performance that by Jones, been a while sinced I watched it but I thought he clearly beat Barrera with - like you said - the straight shots.

It's hard to pinpoint what exactly Jones lacked, it's easiest to point to his chin as the main flaw in his game, and I'd tend to agree with that but heart was a factor to a degree aswell. Not heart as in he was a quitter, but he could be deterred easily and was a notorious 'fader' in fights. His stamina wasn't a problem IMO (though people look to the Johnson loss and say it was) because he finished strong in gruelling fights against Barerra and Julio. I'd say concentration let him down more than anything, because plenty of fighters with sub-par chins have made it through against hard punching foes with well exectuted gameplans.

The Johnson loss was down to poor preparation and concentration, Jones was not cut out for the heat in the South USA outdoor arena, and he should have factored that into his training. Faded after a good start and crumbled.

Pinckney loss was an embarassment, Jones was looking amazing and then lost his focus and got caught. Definitely avoidable with a bit of focus.

The Mckinney loss was hard for Jones (Lost to his amateur rival, on his ****ing birthday!) after knocking Kennedy down and nearly sparking him he just seemed to wear himself out and gas too early. He could have outboxed Mckinney easily over twelve but went for it too quickly and paid the price. Then there's wins where he faded halfway through like against Jorge Julio but came back strong.

When Junior put his mind to it, kept his concentration and maintained a gameplan he was a very formidable fighter. Fast, good reflexes and an excellent jab. Barrera being the best example of him on his game, also hjis past prime self beating that English guy with the tiger haricut (can't for the life of me remember his name) who was a massive puncher and had Junior down a couple of times but Jones stuck to the gameplan and his class told, lovely stoppage.

The biggest indication of his lack of concentration (nice prose rhyme there :yep) was, if you watch all of his fights, he wins every single first round and looks nothing short of sensational doing so. Jabbing, moving, landing ****loads of the left and barely getting touched. Then he just loses focus and slowly faded. Tragic because he was a skilled fighter but it shows how important maintaing concentration is, and it makes you appreciate the fighters who perform so well consistently.

 

Not a fan especially, but Wlad Klitschko with a mean streak would be a monster.

 

Mandanda's threads are too good. He's running away with poster of the year.

If you want to retain your title, you better get to work Flea Man :yep

 

Khan with a chin :hey

 

and the rest...