Grading Hopkins's best wins

I agree the right man won. My scorecard is slightly closer than most, scoring it 115-113 to Calzaghe.

Negotiations in the modern game is a fickle business. I wouldn't say Hopkins blatantly ducked Calzaghe.

And still believe he would have won if the fight took place earlier.

 

Pascal, Pavlik and Tito are great wins.

Tarver was an ok win, Tarver wasn't the same. He was in movie star mode.

Winky...that was Winky at about 75% of his best, and Winky was winning early on until he clearly gassed out.

His stoppage of Glen Johnson was one of note also.

 

Not resonable to use against him since he fought him at a later stage, which I think favoured Calzaghe more than Hopkins.

 

Are we looking at the quality of opponent, or the performance in which they were beaten.

Or... combination of the two

For example:-

Felix Trinidad - A former WW champ, former LMW champ, and reigning MW champ. Had been knocked down several times in his career, was coming off a big KO win over William Joppy, should have lost against Oscar. Undefeated, big hitting and P4P but not an established MW champ, although being rated the best MW at the time.

On the grading system that would be about a, B-.

Hopkins TKO12 Trinidad - Hopkins completely dominated Trinidad in every round for every minute, shocking most of the boxing world in the process. And to top it off, wins by KO.

The performance was masterful, and IMO an A.

When we combined the two we can rate this win about a B. A world class win, not elite but given the performance and circumstances it wasnt a win over a bum either.

 

Agreed but what many people dont understand or realize there cant be elite people in someones weight class when 1 guy beats them for 10 years no way to acheive it if the guy on top never lets you.

 

:deal

 

When looking at a guys like hopkins resume its always no one was elite. Example: say trinidad made move to middle weight ko'ed joppy (hopkins not there) ko'ed two other champs became undisputed (very likely scenario) he would be considered an elite great middle weight but guess what hopkins was there and never allowed him or any othere middle weight to achieve elite or world class because he beat all top guys for ten years. fyi

 

Good post. Another thing that keeps a lot of eyes on BHop is his uncanny ability to put on a really good performance immediatley after showing eveyone he's shot. IE Pavlik followed Calzaghe, and Tarver followed Taylor.

 

trinidad
prime weight = welterweight (147)
fought hopkins at middleweight (159) atsch
trinidads record at middleweight or above from hopkins onwards = 2 wins / 3 defeats

winky wright
prime weight - light middleweight (154)
fought hopkins at - 170 lbs atsch
in 57 fights, the hopkins fight was the only fight that wright had weighed over 160 lbs (a full 10lbs difference)

de la hoya
prime weight - welterweight (140lbs)
fought hopkins at - middleweight (160lbs) atsch
de la hoya only fought twice in his career at middleweight out of 45 fights -1 win / 1 loss - the win was a very debatable decision over eurobum felix sturm

pavlik
prime weight - middleweight (160 lbs)
fought hopkins at - 170 lbs atsch
in 34 fights pavlik had only fought 2 minnions at the beginning of his career at 169. all pavliks fights since hopkins have been at the 160 limit.

tarver
prime weight 175
great 2 weight jump from hopkins and his best win despite tarver being a b-level fighter and going 3 wins / 3 losses from hopkins onwards.

johnson
prime weight -super mid / light heavy (160 or 175)
fought hopkins at - middleweight (160)
johnsons record at 160 + from hopkins onwards - 20 wins / 15 defeats / 2 draws
the defeats have come against people of the level of ottke, woods, shieka, gonzales, harmon, branco, vanderpool, Kiwanuka, sosa

 

See this happens a lot, fighters A, B and C are all excellent fighters but once fighter X beats them fighters A, B, and C are no longer what they were...maybe something was up with them physically? wrong weight? past their prime? must be the case especially since fighter X is not anything special so it wouldn't make sense fighters A, B and C were losing to him especially since all 3 fighters were heavy favourites going into the fight.

 

I can't wait to see this one in action if Hopkins wins his next fight.

 

Great research overall, matter of fact legendary analysis. However after visiting Kelly Pavliks Boxrec page I learnt other things.

Pavlik fought 15+ times above the MW limit (160 lbs) before Hopkins owned him.

Pavlik's last two fights have been around 170 lbs.
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Hopkins would have whooped Pavlik regardless of weight.

 

Jack dont know Jack (****) about Baaxin! :deal (Statement retracted)

Hagler KO Hearns
- But Hearns wasnt a MW, Hearns also had a glass jaw.

Monzon beat Griffith and Napoles.
- Both not MW, so not a great win

RJJ beat Toney
- Toney was tubby, so not a great win either

Toney beat McCallum
- McCallum was a smaller fighter, so very **** win for James Toney here.

SRL beat Duran
- Duran was a LW, atsch You dont know **** about baaxin

Calzaghe beat Kessler
- Kessler started his career at LMW, thats two divisions south of SMW

Hagler beat Duran
- You dumb or something, Duran was a LW, Hagler was a MW

Mayweather beat Cotto
- Cotto is a former LWW, come on now you taking it too far

Tyson KO1 Spinks
- Spinks is a LHW, spinks was lineal champ so what

Bowe KO Holyfield
- atsch You dont know **** about baaxin, Holyfield was a CW

Wright beat Mosley
- Mosley was a LW

Mosley beat Hoya
- :-( Hoya was a SFW

 

I think the types of arguments like the one I posted are overused and generally lack a bit of logic in order to unfairly criticize. However, in Hopkins' case, I think it's warranted.

Is it overly simplistic to say "Winky wasn't a 170lber"? Possibly, but I think it's true. His prime was as a junior middleweight and he looked terrible at 170. The same goes for Pavlik, who is likely to return to middleweight. I just don't see him as a top class opponent at 170.

What I'd say was possibly unfair, was the comment about Tito. Whilst he wasn't a great middleweight, he was a good fighter there and that should be remembered.

Again though, I think the win can be overrated because of Tito's legacy in the lower weights. As soon as he lost his devastating power, he wasn't the same fighter, much like Pavlik at 170.

So, yeah, whilst I agree with where you're coming from, I make an exception for Hopkins