Benny Leonard v Jack Britton Rematch?

Senya, I commend you on your research of that long ago fight,but Leonard
had Britton down for a 9 count and the level headed Leonard doesn't out of character ,and on the verge of a possible ko, smack Jack Britton on the face
unless LEONARD KNEW HE COULD NOT WIN THAT BOUT, just as Manny Seamon confessed years later,after the death of Leonard and Btitton...
I have full confidence that Leonard knowing that he had to lose, never went all out on Britton,whom he won 2 ND bouts prior from Britton, by mistake floored Britton, and fearing that Britton taking the count of 9, knew that to comply with "leonard MUST LOSE threat by Billy Gibson,had no recourse than to rush to the floored Britton and smack him on the face...
I believe what Manny Seamon disclaimed before Seamon's death ,that
The "BOYS" warned Leonard not to win...And Billy Gibson ,Benny Leonard's
manager was well acquainted with the mob boys of that time in the roaring twenties...Cheers...

 

Does it matter when he told the story ?
Obviously it was before he died.

I don't know what would make it more credible. If he'd told it 60 years after the event in his old age, it would probably be less credible.
As it is, he told it 25 years after the event, and within a year of Leonard's death.

 

You boys got me wondering if Mannys 1948 statment has anyting to do with Billy Gibsons passing THAT SAME YEAR!

 

I think leneord should increase his fighting ability..


in front of me he is not a good fighter..

 

Not that it's that big a point but Leonard only won one our those no decision bouts. The other was a draw. And even Leonard's win was hotly contested.

And not to be to contentious Burt but it's pretty clear Leonard did not have Britton on the verge of a Kayo and possibly not even in that much trouble.

 

Senya that was fantastic research. Really eye opening and a wonderful read. Thank you.

 

LR. Two points...According to Boxing Register, Benny Leonard on Oct.19, 1917 won a ND bout in10 rds. and on June 2, 1918 Leonard won a ND bout in 6 rds...
Whenever a man takes a 9 count from a hard blow to the midsection a man is down for a good reason...Wouldn't you think. ? LR, all this haggling on this thread comes down to this : I think Manny Seamon was telling the truth when he confessed that Billy Gibson told Benny Leonard in their dressing room just before the fight," Benny you CAN'T Win tonight ". Seamon was in that D.R. that night as a trainer...I believe he was revealing the truth that fateful evening...You believe he lied...Simple as that...One of us is correct...Cheers.

 

And neither of us will ever know for sure. My copy of the boxing register doesn't list the result.of those particular no decision fights; those results are courtesy of boxrec.

Britton went down claiming he was fouled, and Leonard hit him well before 9. None of the sources, contemporary sources that were present I might add, claim that Britton was severely injured or in particular distress. Although most feel the end, if not the fight itself, was a set up.

Edit: it appears you were right about the previous fights. Leonard.won the first handily. The second was split as to who deserved the decision with Leonard the consensus, but nog majority, pick.

 

T, even if the lightweight champion Benny Leonard would have lost to the truly great and TODAY forgotten Welterweight champ Jack Britton, Benny would have not "lost face". Jack Britton was so highly regarded by his peers including Nat Fleischer, who had Britton just ahead of Ray Robinson ,as an all-time Welterweight...Britton ,aside from a 4rd tko in his first prelims went about THREE HUNDRED AND FORTY bouts without ever being stopped again...Simply amazing was this super boxer, whose greatest feat was in koing Britain's greatest boxer Ted Kid Lewis in 1919... Probably no lightweight in history could spot the immaculate welterweight Jack Britton
8 pounds and whip Jack Britton...So in conclusion, all things point to the
confession of the highly regarded Manny Seamon before he died that
Billy Gibson told Leonard in their dressing room moments before the bout
"Benny you CAN'T WIN tonight ". The sobbing Leonard had no other choice
I believe...Cheers...

 

And here's a three page Jack Britton discussion thread Russell created from February 2010 (which regresses from the subject matter to Greb during page two, but good conversation about both). Early ESB Classic contributions from Burt here, as he's learning the ropes here and developing his posting style. (It's never too late to learn something new. I wish I could impress that upon my retired educator father and his peers.)

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=207519

 

It makes for terrific folklore, but I used the term "reportedly" because artistic license was apparently taken in creating this legend. It's one of boxing's greatest tales, but by the time I repeated that story in the Britton discussion thread, one of the greatest hard ass scholars we've ever had here had debunked it to try setting the record straight. (Still, too good a bedtime fable for allowing the facts to completely obliterate it. The myth itself has been an integral part of boxing lore for the better part of a century.) Having impressed you with the telling of it, the responsible thing now is to also relate Klompton's correction of me from October 2009, an example of ESB Classic at its very best. (This guy is a hardcore researcher, source historian and debunker, while I'm merely an amateur contributor here, repeating material and subjective impressions culled from readings and viewings now decades old.):

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5071316&postcount=14

During earlier days, it wasn't so much of a problem, because so many of the living had seen him in action. His prominence subsided as his witnesses died out, but now forums like this one are beginning to restore the original order of things. It's up to us to help secure Jack's legacy for future generations. You've now become part of that process.