Downplayed riddles : Cassius Clay / Muhammad Ali

I respect your opinion but if you are putting these guys above Ali then theres no point in debating this. I mean, Ike over Ali?? Jesus wept!! Plus all the fights you DO give him credit for were all ,arguably (for some), past prime. I just cant fathom your thinkin FF:huh

 

Dude, have u heard the one about Purrity beating Ali? and Sanders beating Liston? Yep, Frankenfranks handiwork

 

Ali is the Greatest.

You want to take that away from him with your mouth and fingers don't you?

[Thing said in this thread]

'Liston wasn't that good (..Amazing..Ali and Liston fought twice..after losing to Ali both times..Liston goes on to win 14 consecutive matches including fights against Amon Lincoln, the two other Sonny's Moore and Jonhson.)' But he really wasnt that good? Wow.

- 'Floyd was old with back problems (Really..?).'

'Ali had 10 (six actually) extra seconds of a break between rounds. (they fought twice, problems with the rematch too?)' Whatever actually happened didn't seem to rub Cooper the wrong way, as he and Ali were good friends even across the waters and into their elderly age.

'did not beat George Chuvalo (got beat by Chuvalo)' ~ Ive seen some Ali haters while reading around this board...But you are the first Ive ever seen make such a ridiculous and delusional statement. George deserves his credit for going the distance in the first fight, didn't fair as well later on in 72 against a more polished Ali. Chuvalo beat Ali? That's quite a delusional statement.



Ali greatest of all time. Not because of just his record, work ethic, training, skill and commitment to the sport of boxing and good sportsmanship..but because the greatest fighters of his time all recognized him as such. You cant take away the respect the boxing greats have for the greatest of their sport, you cant take away his admiration in the eyes of friend and enemies. He is a motivational person for people inside and outside the ring, a cultural icon.

Tell us why you really don't like him...

 

Double post.

 

Honestly you can nitpick ANY fighters resume

 

True... Ali was great. Some nights were better than others but at his best he was better than anyone he ever faced IMO. No doubt he was better than Doug Jones, Henry Cooper, Jimmy Young, Ernie Shavers, Leon Spinks, Trevor Berbick, Ken Norton... even George Foreman, Joe Frazier and Larry Holmes IMO

Holyfield gets disrespected way too harsh by some. He won a SD vs, Qawi... but it was only his 12th pro fight... he stopped Qawi in 4 in their rematch. The man went undefeated for 8 years and went 10-0 (7) in World Title Fights during this stretch. He was Undisputed CW Champ and HW Champ. He went 4-0 (1) vs. Hall of Famers Qawi x2, Foreman, and Holmes during the undefeated stretch.

His first loss was a great fight. It was very competitive and Bowe got away with countless lowblows and rough tactics. Bowe had a "Tokyo Douglas" type of performance but still could have lost had he had a point or two taken away because of lowblows and if the KD hadn't counted. They both landed punches after the bell several times. The knockdown? Bowe punched Holyfield in the back of the head at the base of the skull... I don't think it should have counted. Holyfield fought a much smarter fight in the rematch and outboxed Bowe.

H2H/Prime vs. Prime? I have Ali, Holmes, Holyfield, and Foreman as my top 4.

 

Disagree with Bowe / Holyfield 2....

After initial success Holyfield started to fade and Bowe was coming on.....no surprise here, Holyfield was never a conditioning wonder at Heavyweight and Futch/Bowe knew that, the trick was to make him fight the entire round without his usual dancing on his toes moves to catch a breather. It worked the first time for Bowe and it would have worked again if the fanman would have never happened, Bowe was definitely getting momentum before.

The fanman gave Holyfield his second wind and Bowe's wife collapsing ringside did certainly not enhance Bowe's focus...........even then, Holyfield still won only a razorthin decision..........IMO, without the fanman he would have lost.

The key to beat Holyfield in his prime years was to make him fight full rounds, pressure him to retaliate /brawl and he never liked it to the body. Bowe did all of the above but it required major agression and a great chin., which Bowe coincidently had.

Lewis should have had a much easier time with Holyfield but he knew his chin was not on Bowe's level and needed to play it safe, nevertheless he won both fights, the draw was total BS.

 

One of my favorite esb posts of all time!!

 

Welcome back !

Haven't seen you post in a while.