Roy Jones vs Calzaghe at their peaks. Objectively tell me...

There were high hopes for Dirrell among many fans. But after he sacked his promotor and expected Bute to come fight him in California (through negoitation with his uncle when the uncle is not busy taking care of his job as a carpark attendent*) I think it is safe to say Dirrell will do little in this sport. Most likely he will knock out a few contenders, but I dont see him in the ring with the best.

*No disrespect meant towards carpark attendents. I have worked like one myself in London.

 

:rofl 1st time I have ever heard anyone call him that ..Now thats objective

 

Agreed, Andre Ward is a fantastic fighter (no.4 P4P on my personal list), and he's just coming into his peak. Look forward to seeing him fight Dawson and Bute in the next 18 months.

Andre Dirrell has all the talent, but he doesn't have the application that Roy Jones had. He's very poorly managed as well. I guess not getting the decision against Froch (which I thought he deserved) really set his career back.

 

Hi mate,

Great reply. I really enjoyed that. Don't worry about replying to my msg if you're busy. There's no rush, I just wanted to make sure it'd been sent. When I send messages I'm never confident that they've been sent.

Speak to you later.

 

Knockout,

Great reply, I'll reply Tom mate.

 

Knockout,

Hi mate, good reply.

Hopkins hadn't achieved a lot, and neither had Roy really, but they were both good enough to fight for the vacant belt. Hopkins was in his physical prime at 28/29 and Roy beat him 8 rounds to 4 with an injured right hand. Had he not injured his hand, I think he'd have won more convincingly. If you look at what Bernard went onto achieve, it was a good win.

Mike was obviously passed his best when Roy fought him. However, I don't think it's the equivalent of Joe beating Roy in 2008. Mike was still capable of fighting at World Championship level, and he gave Toney a good fight in 97 a year after he'd fought Roy. By 2008 Roy was completely done on the World stage.

Dariusz did have a right to all of Roy's belts, but he refused to leave Germany. Nobody at the time, could have expected Roy to fight him in Germany. Daruisz seemed happy defending his one belt in Germany, like Joe did here. You would have thought after what happened to him, it would have made him more determined to fight Roy in a unification? Roy said he'd fight him anywhere but Germany, but Dariusz could never agree to terms to go The U.S. Roy never refused to fight him. The onus was on Dariusz to chase down the fight.

Roy was the best in the World, with 3 of the 4 belts. Germany could never have held a huge Unification fight of that magnitude. Darusz found himself in a catch 22 like Joe did. He was getting good money defending his belt in Germany. Did he risk that to go for the other three? Or did he just stay put? Back to Roy's opposition, every fighter fights bums. I think it's unfair that you compare the fighters he missed with the bums he fought. Because you can do that with anyone's record.

Of course fighting Collins would have been better than fighting Frazier etc. But he beat Reggie Johnson in a shut out, Hill in 4 rounds, he iced Griffin in a round, and he beat Tarver when not fighting at 100 per cent of his capabilities. It's impossible to fight a who's who of the boxing World. He gets a huge amound of abuse for Frazier. But Frazier was somehow his mandotary, and in the very next fight he fought Reggie. Then a few fights down the road he fought Harding who had beaten Tarver.

Like i've just mentioned, I think Joe was in a catch 22 just like Dariusz was. He was the best Super Middle in the World and he was happy defending the belt at home. Who can blame him? I can't, I would have probably done the same thing in his shoes. But he had to make a choice. The longer he defended his Super Middle Title at home, the less chance he had of getting a fight with Roy and Hopkins.

As I keep saying, the division was dead when Joe was in his mid 20's. His divsion and the Cruiserweight division in my honest opinion were the weakest divisions. Hopkins was at 160. Was he willing to move up in weight to face Joe who outside of the U.K. was relatively unknown? The answer is, yes put for probably for 70% of the purse. It's the same with Roy. Roy was never going to come back down in weight to fight Joe. Roy had been there and done that, and Joe wasn't a big enough name to get him to come down a division when he had all but one of the 175 belts.

Joe beating Hopkins was just for The Ring Title, and he was still Undisputed SMW champ, because at the time he didn't have to give them up. He had an easier time in camp for Hopkins and Roy, because he didn't have to starve himself to make 168. He made 175 quite comfortably. With Roy it was the opposite. He'd been at 175 for 6 years, and he would have had to have cut a bit of muscle to hit 168. He would never have been prepared to do that, because a fight against Joe at that time, wouldn't have been a huge fight, and he also had one eye on moving upto heavy. So he was never going to come down in weight, when he knew that he'd have to gain weight at some point in the near future.

I didn't expect Joe to defend his SMW Title in America straight after he'd won it. But at some stage, if he really wanted Roy, he would have had to given it up and move upto 175. It would have been a huge gamble, but he didn't really have a choice. If he stays in the U.K. he's still a World Champion, but in The U.S. nobody knows who he his, so he hasn't got the name or the negotiating power to get a megafight.

I think he had to give up his Title in around 2000, 3 years after defending it, to move upto 175. If he'd have moved up in his late 20's and fought in the U.S. I don't see any reason why he couldn't have made a name for himself. Being a two weight World Champion fighting the likes Of Roy, Tarver, Harding etc would have been a bigger accomplishment than Unifying a weak division against Kessler, who was good but not great.

Also he would have been willing to do something that Roy wasn't willing to do. If Joe had've moved up the rankings at 175, he'd have been more than happy to go to Germany and fight Dariusz. I know it's eassier said than done, but I can't see why he couldn't have done that. I'm sure we'll both agree that Joe was definitely good enough to have taken Dariusz's Title from him. At that point he would have held the only belt that Roy didn't have.

Then fans on both siides of the Atlantic would have wanted a Unification fight between Roy and Joe. Joe would have had to have gone to the U.S. but it would have been a huge event, and he'd have had a massive payday. If he'd have beaten Roy, the World would have been his Oyster. Think about it. I honestly can't see how any of what I've written wouldn't have been possible. As each year went but, the harder it was for Joe to make weight.

Why kill yourself to make 168 to fight Mitchell, Veit etc, etc, when you can have big fights, with huge paydays, against better opposition at a weight that you feel more comfortable at?J oe had all the skills in the World, but his ambition didn't match them. I don't think I've ever seen a "What would have happened Joe vs DM?" thread. I've mentioned it a few times, but I haven't heard many others mention it.

I think Joe had a brilliant career, but his reluctance to let go of his SMW Title cost him Global recognition and huge paydays. Like I keep saying you can't have it both ways. If you're happy staying at home defending your belt, fair play to you. But when you don't get huge fights and the respect you deserve because of it, you can't complain. You have to take gambles and make sacrifices, but Joe was never prepared to do it.

Look what he did to Lacy, but apparently he tried to pull how of the fight, before Frank talked him round. That right there tells you why he never got the recognition and the huge paydays. Roy was never going to fight him in The M.E.N. etc. If you could combine Joe and Ricky, you'd have had a huge Superstar. As I said in one of my previous posts, Joe's ambition didn't match his skills. But Ricky's skills didn't match his ambition.

Ricky fought Floyd and Manny, Joe's biggest wins are and always will be, Lacy and Kessler. They weren't great fighters. Lacy and Kessler will never be classed as great fighters. The highlight of Joe's entire career, was his Unification win against Kessler. But Kessler wasn't great and neither was the SMW division at the time. That sounds harsh, but Joe was better than that.

I know I give him stick, but he was a fantastic fighter. But he can't moan about not getting huge fights, when he spent his whole career fighting in the U.K. I've no sympathy for him, and I'm sick of reading articles where he says he chased people. He thinks Frank making a phone call is chasing someone. He never chased anybody!

Great debate mate.

Regards, Loudon.

 

Hi Loudon

Very comprehensive post! Thanks for taking the time to respond.

I'm very busy today, so I'll have to reply to it late tonight

All the best

 

I am willing to bet my house that RJJ at his peak would win every round unless he was messing around.Guarantee!

 

Nandos is an overrated piece of wank. Gtfo.

 

Hi mate,

just reply whenever you've got time, no rush.

 

Hi.

 

Wrong.