The right style to beat a prime Wladimir Klitschko?

But you need to understand his defense mechanism. He does keep his left low, but his short stature, combined with his crouching rolling style, intentially invited the right so he could counter over his opponents. It's an intelligent aggressive style, as opposed to the walk in with your guard up against one of the hardest heavyweight punchers of all time.

While Haye's gameplan was to fight Wlad on the outside, he fought with his left hand down as well, and Wlad was rarely able to land his signature punch. Additionally, Haye is at least 3 inches taller than Dempsey which offers three more inches of a target.

So I completely disagree with what you say about Dempsey's defense. I think that's the smartest approach to fighting Wlad. And I don't know what you have against Carpentier, but he's one of the best fighters in the history of the sport, but highly irrelevant because he was a smaller man than Dempsey.

Wlad has never even been in the ring with a fighter of Dempsey's calibur, let alone fought anyone with his particular style.

The closest he's gotten was against a lumbering fat, Peter that utilized the gloves up defense, and still managed to get knocked down 3 times in the process.

I think Wlad has improved, but his quality of opposition has declined with the exception of Haye who fought with the wrong game plan.

Demspey is just as fast and hard hitting as Haye, except he would utilize a style where he would get underneath Wlad's punches and get inside, where Wlad is least comfortable.

Haye allowed Wlad to control the fight by stayin outside and offering little very little in return.

Wlad never had Haye in any danger. He dominated the fight, but like the above poster stated, when Wlad did land, Haye didn't die in the ring.

 

Actually he's only listed as being 2 inches taller, but in reality he really only seems to be 6.0-6.1 like Dempsey.

Other than, great points all around.
:good

 

I don't think that Ali or Holmes would do well against Wlad. Their game is not getting close to somebody, and they are not that good in close. He'd keep them at the end of his punches. I agree that Dempsey, or at least that style would work well.
My thought would be this...I would tell my fighter to stay low, very low, weight back, and constantly shade to your right, Wlad's left, staying slightly outside his jab. You are trying to make him step around to make his jab land, and to jab down. This opens him up for the right hand over the jab. You are trying to make him reach with his right hand, for the same reason. You would want to pick your shots, sliding under the jab to hit the body with the right hand, to shorten that long left arm.
You would always want to be low because he can't tie up as well, and because you would always want him to be reaching and punching down so you can hit him over the top. I would tell him to be patient, and when you get under or around the jab, to make that first shot count. Place it well and sit down on it.

 

Someone like Fraizer, Tyson, Lewis, Ali, Holmes, Foreman.

 

I appreciate it. No slight against Wlad. I think he's an ATG heavyweight.

 

His defense mechanisms didn't work so well against Firpo and wouldn't have worked against Willard were Willard even a decent fighter. I'm sorry, the measuring sticks for Dempsey are so bad, either lightheavies like Gibbons or Carpentier (neither one of the best fighters ever nor anything resembling a real heavyweight) or lumbering oafs like Willard, or complete amateurs like Firpo.

The Haye comparison keeps arising, but Haye got whitewashed in their fight.

The great factor for me is not getting KO'd in one or outboxed over 4 by a butterball during his supposed prime, but the film evidence. He is too open, too off-balance, and content to throw out his gameplan too often... mostly due to the fact that he can overwhelm his underwhelming opponents. Tunney showed what a small man could do to Dempsey with an excellent jab. Wlad is an enormous man with an ATG heavyweight jab. It would be a destruction.

 

You need to reinvestigate Carpentier, he fought a lot like Martinez, but he had far more tricks. A very crafty, accurate, hard punching, slick fighter.

But he had no business fighting Dempsey. And again with Firpo, everybody has a bad fight. He got caught being reckless, and then he went in to wreck Firpo.

 

Wlad is a great fighter, whose style and physical gifts would
pose problems to many a fighter; the reach, powerful jab,
left hook, dynamite right, footspeed, leaning in the clinches.
However Wlad gets flustered when he eats a big shot. Wlad
likes opponents to be demoralized by his jab and find his power
troublesome forcing them to go into a defensive shell. There
was a great interview on ESB where Lamon Brewster remarked
that a fighter needs to have a great left hook to beat Wlad. I agree.
A tall fighter 6'2 or greater needs a great jab, an elite chin imo,
a left hook, and in my opinion an uppercut. I mean take Bowe
For example he would take Wlads head off with uppercuts on the
inside. Perhaps a fighter who is better on the inside would have
more success against Wlad? Last but not least balls and heart,
Arreola has both and if he can take his pummeling then eventaully
land a big shot who knows. Wlad never faced anyone whose jab
was comprable to his in skill so the jab would be integral, for
a tall guy being a southpaw would help ie Sanders haha.
So great jab, punch repertoire, an elite chin, the balls to be willing
to het stopped in order to stop Wlad. Its something of a paradox,
fighters dont want to take a chance and get stopped, then they
get worn down or get stopped late ala Chambers. In my opinion Tyson
would destroy Wlad, cause he had an atg chin, and an atg left hook
that he could lunge with, and he had the speed and defense to
slip most of Wlads jabs and powershots, and Wlads chin and ribs
would not last aginst Tysons' power, so for a shorter fighter
the left hook, body shots, and elite or near elite defense is a must.
Bottom line a prime Wlads only weakness might be his chin, so
it must be tested. Prime Wlad under Manny is very hard to beat
plain and simple. Imo Tyson, Lewis, Bowe, Foreman and
Peak Buster could and would stop Wlad. Ali, Holmes,
possibly Young would win unanimous decisions. Tough
fight for a non all time great, I mean look at Bewster Wlad 2.

 

And even at that, Dempsey would still take him!

That is how good Dempsey was at what he did.

 

Wlad ripped Thompson to the body, informing your point about changing things up against taller opponents.

Speaking as a big guy who regularly spars 175ers and 168ers, punching a smaller opponent in the body is quite awkward, and thus dangerous. A guy like Wlad, unless its an incredibly well practiced part of his game, just doesn't go to a guy like Ibragimov's body. He did it with Thompson because he didn't have to surrender his height, footing, or defense to land them!

 

:thumbsup Good post.

Thats a long one for you. Is redtube broken?

 

That explains a lot.

 

I think a guy like Dempsey or Mike Tyson would be the perfect foil for Wlad.

Violent guys who love to throw big, and who can close distance FAST and still have the feet under them to throw something hard.

If you try to engage Wladimir at any type of distance, you either need uncanny speed, footwork, and reflexes, or you need arms as long as his and a jab as good as his.

Ali could probably get it done for the former, Lennox Lewis for the latter. No heavyweight has ever blended speed, movement, and uncanny reflex based defense like Ali. Muhammad would give any by the basics fighter in history hell. Lennox's jab isn't as good as Wlad's(I've experienced both, and it isn't even close), but it'd definitely good enough, hard enough, and sharp enough to be a tool to close distance a bit, and I think Lennox would do in Wlad the same way he did in Grant: With aggressive mauling, uppercuts, and overhooks in close.

I think Larry Holmes has the stylistic tools and physical ability to do it, but I think Wlad knocks him out; He presents a fine target for a long right hand(A shot most Holmes opponents that possessed it had little trouble landing) and Wlad has ATG KO power in that right hand. He'd do what Shavers did earlier in the fight, and then do it for keeps later on.

I agree with McGrains assertion that Patterson could certainly pull it off, but I don't think I'd pick him to do the trick. He had a habit of freezing a bit when he got caught at the end of shots, and IF Wlad could establish his jab and right hand early, he'd knock Patterson out that same round. Floyd would have to fight a near perfect fight to win, given his vulnerabilities and fragile posture under fire.

 

MagnaNasakki, are you saying youve sparred with both
Wladimir and Lewis!? Thats very cool. Can you elaborate?
There was a poster on general who I wont name who posted
A valid quote from Steward saying that Wlad has a better jab,
Better one punch knockout power, better balance, footwork,
and punch repertoire. Although Id always favor Lewis to win,
anytime he got outclassed technically, Lewis resorted to sheer
brawling and mauling and he would beat Wlad with uppercuts
and right hands. Anyway i posted earlier my theory, but if
you have met and/or sparred with Wlad and Lennox Id love
to hear about it, and what kind of guys they are etc.

 

Ive told the generic story a million and one times, and I wont clog a great thread with it again. Shoot me a PM with any questions and I'd be happy to answer