I Have To Believe Jeffries Durabilty

I thought I was the only one who thought Chuvalo's "chin" was based more on his survival mode than his actual durability.

 

Guys like Dempsey, Marciano, Louis, and even guys like Earnie Shavers and Mike Weaver were no bigger than guys like Joe Goddard, Peter Jackson, Bob Armstrong, Gus Ruhlin, and Jack Munroe. Sharkey was a rock solid 185 guy. Corbett was about 190. And if those guys weren't preparing for 20 or 25 rounds fights, they'd be even bigger. And if the smaller heavies in your era beat the bigger heavies, then you defend against the smaller guys. No one from Jeff's era criticized his list of opponents. They lauded him for who he fought.

So yes, he had a chin and durability, getting hit on the jaw by guys wearing 5 ounce gloves (like MMA gloves today) and wearing no mouthpiece, and getting hit anywhere from 1 to 25 rounds. So he could take a punch even when fatigue set in. Never dropped until the comeback fight after six years of not fighting, and even then it took 15 rounds to put him down.

 

Something that I often come back to.

ATGs that are matched hard early, usualy have a few knockdowns to show for it, often against smaller heavyweights e.g Ali Cooper.

Given the opposition that Jeffries fought from the opening gate, it is little short of incredible that he was never dropped in his early career.

 

I'm really unsure.

On one hand his chin was proven against the best in his division at the time.

On the other hand fitz gave him a real beating and I can't imagine that someone like tyson would have much difficulty stopping him in 3 rounds.

 

Let's not get carried away. Fitz got KO'd in 11 and then in 8. Was Jeff cut up? Yes. But he was getting hit by a freakish hard puncher wearing 5 oz. gloves who had hardened plaster of paris on his wraps underneath. So I say kudos to Jeff for not getting stunned or wobbled or dropped, and for stopping Fitz, something no one else did until Bob was 42 years old.

 

Jeffries proved himself to have a good level of durability..........for a middleweight

 

Durable? Yes

As the two you mentioned? Perhaps though def. not proven being hit by a hard punching super middle doesn't mean you can take on the heaviest punchers at heavyweight. Seriously I think a stiff jab from a Foreman or Bruno would knock you more senseless than the hardest blow Fitzie could muster

 

Could be down to a number of things really

a) The heavyweights he did destory weren't very skilled or fast and Fitz being the smaller, faster man could land at will

b) Fitz hitting harder than i previously thought

c) Fitz wasn't as good against Jeffries because he was much older

d) No mouthguards and extremely tiny wraps/gloves increasing the severity of injuries/damage

IN ANY CASE like i've said a bazillion times on classic it hasn't been proven to a certain standard, i dont have anything against Jeffries but he just ins't proven against very hard punchers in his own weight division. I've sparred with people who were about Super Middleweight and people who are Heavyweights and the difference is VERY noticable.

 

I've read this comment multiple times and am simply confused about the point you are trying to make regarding Chuvalo ... can you clarify ?

 

b and d are likely ...

 

McVey,

The plaster is applied in wet form and then dries hard.

Fitz had hand problems and actually asked well before the fight to use it to protect his hands, and Jeff did not object. Jeff thought it wouldn't help Bob much (or hurt him) and that he would knock out Fitz regardless. That's how confident/crazy/ignorant he was. After that fight, Jeff realized otherwise and strenuously objected to anyone wearing plaster and wanted the wraps applied in the ring or checked for plaster before the gloves were put on.

Fitzsimmons had insisted on such protection for his hands because of their fragility. He said, “All I want is a little bit of sticking plaster on my hand where it was hurt before.” Jeffries responded, “I have no objection to that. It will be subject to the inspection of the referee, of course.”[FONT=&quot][1][/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][1][/FONT][/FONT] National Police Gazette, June 14, 21, 1902, August 9, 1902.

The following year, when negotiating the terms of a fight with Corbett, Jeffries did not want to allow Corbett to wear hand bandages, saying that they made the hands like plaster of Paris. Jeff said, “When I fought Fitz last time…he wore bandages which were like a plaster cast. Ordinarily my skin is not easy to open, but when Fitz let go those plaster casts they simply cut me open. The bandages were so hard they even hurt Fitz’s hands.” When Corbett said that Jeff could have a representative observe the wrapping process, Bill Delaney responded, “That’s all right, Jim; but you may accidentally ‘slip’ your hand in a bucket of plaster of paris while meandering from your dressing room to the ring.”[FONT=&quot][1][/FONT] [FONT=&quot] Even as early as 1905, the Police Gazette wrote, “It is said that Fitz[/FONT][FONT=&quot] used to put moistened plaster of Paris on his linen bandages and let the mass grow hard. Then he would have a rocky ridge across his hand that could be felt straight through the glove.”[FONT=&quot][2][/FONT] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][1][/FONT][/FONT] Philadelphia Public Ledger, Press, Inquirer, March 2, 1903; National Police Gazette, March 21, 28, 1903.

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][2][/FONT][/FONT] Police Gazette, July 15, 1905.




Regardless, Jeff had mad respect for Bob's boxing skill and punching power, and they made good money together giving exhibitions. Bob even helped train him for the Corbett rematch.

The Dooley bout was not a fight, it was a 4-round exhibition bout with no money on the line based on winner/loser. If it was a formal fight with a big purse on the line, I'm certain Fitz would not have stopped after getting dropped. Fitz was a very small middleweight at that point, more of a welter actually at around 150 pounds, not all that experienced either, and Dooley was a top heavyweight at that point. So they were not even in the same weight class, and Fitz was not fighting as a heavy at that point in his career. They exhibited together several times. Fitz was basically picking up a few bucks as a sparring partner.

I am fairly confident the Hall fight was fixed, but if it wasn't, it was a freakish anomaly, with Fitz knocking out Hall in their other two matches.

Yes Fitz was floored and hurt by Choynski, but almost everyone was hurt and/or floored by Choynski at some point. That's what happens when you fight a puncher with speed and timing. But Fitz got up and finished the job in brutal fashion such that the police entered the ring to save Choynski from a true knockout. Back then, the police acted as secondary referees, for refs back then did not often do the humane stoppage like they do today, but would only terminate the fight upon the count of ten, but the police would stop it when they saw the true knockout as inevitable.

Yup Corbett dropped him. Again, a very fast heavyweight champion with height and reach and timing who was bigger than Fitz (how much is debatable, but everyone concedes at least 15 pounds, if not more), and a guy who was by no means shot at that point in his life. But again, Fitz got up and had Corbett on the run. Sort of like how Trinidad got dropped here and there, but usually had the same guys who dropped him running from him soon thereafter.