Kelly Pavlik vs Carlos Monzon 160lbs

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Monzon at 165 destroys Pav at 175.

 

How can anyone even compare them as equals? Monzon did something, Pavlik keeps showing some promise, but not delivering. Let him hold title a few years, and beat whoever top contenders are, then ask for comparison.

 

A lot of hate of Pavlik's expense here. Let's be honest could he have beaten Monzon, probably not. Could he have given Monzon problems, most certainly. Not to the extreme where Monzon looks like he will lose the fight but if a 'Prime' Pavlik decides to box and use his jab with his great height and reach advantage then he woukd give Carlos a tough time. We know that Monzon would start fairly slow, all be it on purpose, but this could lead to a real gain in confidence for Pavlik, something he really needs to fight well (Hopkins fight is a good example of the opposite) I'd say it would be about even through 4 but Monzon's great work rate awkward style and full hearted attitude sees him take the majority of the mid rounds as he bullies Pavlik, whilst Kelly begins to slowly crumble under the pressure, eventually leading to Monzon stopping Pavlik in the 11th, whilst leading about 97-93 on the cards

 

Disagree.

Pavlik would land his straight right hand and it would not have 1 iota of effect on this guy. He'd go downhill quick after that. And I don't see Pavlik as the type to handle those roughhouse tactics of King Carlos either and he'd just make every second of the fight very very uncomfortable for Kelly. And Pavlik simply has to be comfortable in the ring to be effective--he's one of those guys that's a much worse fighter when he's ineffective.

 

Pavlik went d distance with a fully fledged intense clean 170 lbs weigh in Hopkins whom was much stronger than Monzon . Same day weigh in => Pavlik can't make 160 . 48 hours weigh in => Pavlik wins .
Pavlik was no Andy Lee and even while alcoholic and severely drained it was he who floored a fit , strong and quick Martinez 1:0 .

Pavlik is no Emile Grifith (a greater fighter probably but much smaller) and definitely not Nino Benevenuti / Jose Napoles (less great than Griffith and somewhat even smaller) / Denny Moyer .
Monzon's opposition as a middleweight champion was weak .
His best opponents h2h were Briscoe who beat him d 1st time and Valdez who almost did . Pavlik can b compared 2 them , maybe not on p4p sense , but definitely on a h2h sense . Valdez was stopped earlier in his career and Briscoe stopped by Valdez . Those men were stoppable but Monzon couldn't do it . Pavlik 4 all of his alcoholism hadn't been stopped yet .

 

There's a good case for this, Monzon is effectively giving up 15lbs here, he's shorter, less range, weaker and could be bullied. Monzon is a better class of fighter so could possibly nullify the size advantage but he'd have to box very smart and fight a different fight to his usual game

Red Cobra you don't pick Monzon over established 175lbers but this is effectively what he's facing here

It's all down to 24hour weigh ins (not 48)

* Wasn't Hopkins 185lbs?

 

:-(


Why would you dehydrate after a same-day weigh-in ?


MWs in Monzon weighed in at 160 THE DAY OF THE FIGHT and came into the ring at 163-166.

You're very confudsed.

 

Look the size issue is worth a discussion...Monzon was a long, rangy guy who used that to get the job done..Pavlik would be the tallest guy he has faced that I know of and without a precedent, you could argue that we don't know how Carlos would have dealt with that.

But the weight is irrelevant IMO..I don't know why people go on about it so much..it's a secondary issue compared to the gap in skill and nous.

Pavlik from around the Taylor fights rehydrated to around 170 from memory...do you really think less than 10 pounds will make a difference here when history has shown us countless times that superior fighters can give that amount of weight away and still win comfortably.

Even when post Hops Pavlik who pushing to lightheavy and higher when he came into the ring he actually looked slower, more cumbersome and less effective.

Pav outweighed Martinez by 12 pounds and it didn't make a lick of difference.

Weight is just one part of the equation and not a very important one in this case.

 

I actually think Pavlik's ability is underrated, his alcoholism took away any longevity and a poor style match up against a bigger Hopkins. But his purple patch from Miranda to Taylor 2 were impressive performances. I suppose you have to contemplate if Pavlik was near his prime against Martinez

Pavlik's basic but allot of the things he does neutralise allot of the things Monzon likes to do. Monzon likes to jab on the outside, but Pavlik is 3-4inches taller and rangier with a good long jab, so he can jab with Monzon. Monzon liked to take advantage of his height and against the equally tall Mundine had a few problems. Monzon's strong on the inside but on the inside Pavlik's extra weight would see him get the better of exchanges

I wouldn't debate Monzon's more skilled and he could certainly pull it off but I disagree that it's an easy fight

 

See PowerPuncher's posts. I'm not saying Monzon couldn't beat him (he most likely would, like I said), but he would have a lot of trouble. A lot of what Pavlik liked to do in his prime could have gone a long way to neutralise Monzon's best weapons, especially when you take into consideration the size difference.

 

Modern day fighters can't handle their drink the pussies...you don't think Monzon was necking bottles of Uco Valley wine daily?

Made no difference to him.

 

Again, Monzon ko 7 Pavlik. The gulf in class would surface after Pavlik had a good 2, maybe three rounds..and then there would still be those who wouldn't like Monzon's style of showing..still ignoring that he was brutally effective, with no frills, as his record , list of victims and 14 title defenses indicate.