1960 Sonny Liston vs 1919 Jack Dempsey

The Rock breaks Dempsey down for a late stoppage but gets broke down himself (before he can do the breaking) vs. Liston imo, ha

 

They both give Rocky a beating.

 

Jack Dempsey,,,,

When discussing on ABC Televsion, his view on the Muhammad Ali vs Sonny Liston II
Championship bout in Lewiston, Maine.

'I think I saw something, but what, I do not know'

'I guess there was a punch (as Jack smirks).'

"Honestly, I thought Liston tripped.'

Mr. Jack,,,,,,,,,,,,,,still too damn fast for Sonny.

 

Agreed. However, to assess champions both must be utterly reliable at the same level, always willing to put it all on the line. This is simply not the case with all the men Liston beat and in fact Liston himself. If some of his best opponents did not come to fight when he beat them shouldnt this neutralise some of sonnys aura at world level? If Liston himself did not come to fight in a title fight what can anyone bet on?

 

Dempsey was too mean and ruthless for liston, everytime liston would try to push him off he would be right back on the inside tearing up the body and than going upstairs, dempseys bob and weave would frusterate liston, no doubt liston would tag him and hurt him but dempsey doesnt know how to back up. he'd chop liston down like a tree

 

I find the armchair fan passing judgement on who showed up to win very dicey .. Patterson came to win both times , he simply got crushed ... to say any of Liston's opponents gave half mast efforts is simply unsubstantiated ... a 35 plus year old Sonny taking a dive against Ali is realistic but must be taken into proper context ... he was old and fighting a stylistic nightmare in his own near prime ... this is no relection on the same man who fought with a broken jaw v.s. Marshall or swallowed the bombs of Williams and came back to crush him ... there is nothing in Dempsey's hard resume that gives any indicate that he fought anyone close to Liston's particular skill set and the fact that the Mauler was not a particularly bright ring vet , seeing red when hurt and going kamikaze, plays out poorly against a much larger, stronger man like Liston style wise ..

 

I'd pick Dempsey. He's very fast, very tough, very seasoned. He'd take the fight to Liston.


I don't see much similarity between Dempsey and Patterson in styles. It looks to me as if Dempsey fights at a much higher intensity and tempo than Patterson, he's just far more vicious and aggressive whenever he throws his punches, from the first round onwards. There's an obvious menace and ruggedness to Dempsey's whole game that Patterson lacks.

Dempsey had a long reach and was a dirty nasty animal on the inside too, and he wouldn't have any use for the Patterson "peek-a-boo" defense, that didn't prove much of a defense for Floyd.

 

Liston was not top 15 heavy all time, Dempsey and Marciano are top 5. Head to head both take him out. Liston Greb, Langord, any guy who died young, or has mystery surrounding him, gets over-glorified by people. Liston's chin is overated he did not take great shot. He was slow, and while not as bad as Forman, he slowed down a lot as middle rounds progressed.

 

Interview with James McCarter, sparring partner for Sonny Liston

James McCarter a former college football star at the University of Washington, as a 6' 1" 215 lb. fullback.

Originally from Chester, Pennsylvania - now a Los Angeles, California resident.

When James was only 17 years-old, he defeated Sonny Liston in the 'Heavyweight Quarterfinals'
of 1953 National AAU Tournament, held in Boston, Massachussets.

McCarter, the 1956 National AAU Heavyweight Champion, also worked as Sonny Liston's
sparring partner, on and off from 1959 thru 1963.

After getting some ring refinement by Boxing-Trainer Wille Reddish (also Sonny Liston's trainer),
James McCarter was thinking of getting back in the professional ranks.

When sparring with Sonny, James McCarter's goal;
a) Annoy the hell out of him
b) Whack his body
c) Rough him up
d) Stare him down
e) Call him old and slow

During sparring sessions, McCarter would stay on top of Sonny, smothering his punches,
while wacking his body. MCcarter stated that;

'Sonny, he's lazy. He doesn't do his roadwork, so he tires easily. And when he breathes hard,
I hit him in the gut. He hates being hit in the belly. And then, he becomes frustrated, and quits
sparring. I can't even count the times he has just stopped, turned around, and walked out of the ring,
just leaving me there.'

'I look at Willie, and he just shrugs, as if to say, Sonny does what he wants, and
no one can tell him what to do. I don't care who you are, you need someone to
push you, and push you hard, if you want to stay on top in this game.'

 

This is a thoughtful reasoned post. I haven't made a pick but H. E . sets out a relevant stall here, imo.

 

　
So that’s ok is it?
　

But how good were marshal and williams, did they ever bother anyone else?


How do marshal and Williams (who never beat anybody or were ever regarded as threats to the championship) compare with Gunboat Smith, Frank Fulton, Homer smith, carl morris, Billy Miske, Bill Brennan, Battling levinsky and Jess Willard?
　

Dempsey did not fight anyone quite like Liston and Sonny never fought anyone like Dempsey who always hurt the men he fought even when past his best. Dempsey was a giant leap up from the likes of marshal, summerlin, howard king and whitehurst who prove to have been the most competative of sonnys opponents. Dempsey was always ready to fight. He would hit back.

 

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:happy