Open Challenge to hardcore MP Fans - MP 2009 vs FMJ 2009

It is, but that's why his recent punching power/results against movers/boxers is very important. Unless you are suggesting that his power has faded.

 

I dont think his power has faded, but he's not throwing with the same speed and intensity that he used to, or the same volume. Pac has never been a big 1 punch knockout guy, he throws punches in bunches. Although hes clearly shown he can hurt you with either hand at any moment. He knocked Shane down and had him legitimately hurt, his power is no joke. But he doesn't need to have that kind of knockout power anyway to beat Floyd, it's not really that important to focus on compared to his other attributes.

 

I'm not a hardcore MP fan, and I've always favoured Mayweather to beat him. That being said, I did think that Pac had a decent chance against him back then. How could he go about trying to beat Mayweather? Well:

Mayweather is at his best when he's in his shoulder-roll stance. It makes him a remarkably elusive target due to the way he twists, ducks, and leans back, especially if you have a short reach. He even made a superb boxer like Marquez fall all over the place trying to hit him. I see only two real holes in the shoulder-roll stance -- it's vulnerable to jabs and the southpaw left. There aren't many good jabbers around, so Mayweather has been relatively safe there. He did recently fight one of the best jabbers in the sport, and when Cotto had success it was mainly due to that punch. The southpaw straight left is another shot that can trouble Mayweather. The shoulder-roll stance seems mainly great at picking off orthodox right hands, but because the southpaw power shot comes from a different angle, it makes it more difficult to roll. Donaire explains this here:


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiuAgciLY_o[/ame]


These are some gifs demonstrating this in actual fights:

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/1750/shoulderrollfloyd.gif

http://gifsoup.com/view/610831/floyd-judah-1-o.gif

What is Pac's best, and favourite punch? The straight left.

People will point out that Mayweather also has the high guard to fall back on, but that's more of a secondary tool for him, and it's limiting -- it should naturally obstruct your vision more than the shoulder-roll, making it harder to see punches coming. It leaves you more open to body shots due to the raised gloves (as Judah showed), and it also seems to make Mayweather more upright and stiff. Mayweather mainly uses the high guard when he's trying to weather a potential storm -- against Judah in the early rounds, Mosley after getting stunned in round 2, Ortiz after being caught and driven to the ropes. Normally he's more comfortable (and effective) in his shoulder-roll stance.

Another issue is workrate. Nowadays, things seem to have reversed -- Pac is inactive, and Mayweather is more active than he used to be. Back then, Pac was the active one, throwing all sorts of combinations and fighting for full rounds rather than only one minute of the round. Mayweather was mainly content to potshot, but would open up more when his opponent showed signs of weakness. Mayweather's lack of activity meant that he lost rounds against Hoya and Hatton. He often depended on his opponent's lack of stamina to take over in the mid to late rounds -- the old Pac would be able to fight at a high pace for a full twelve rounds, so Mayweather would have his hands full until the final bell, something he never likes to deal with.

Pac's unorthodox combinations. If it's one thing that defensive fighters love, it's dealing with one shot at a time. They can easily pick them off and counter. Combinations are much more difficult to evade, let alone counter -- Mayweather is able to roll multiple punches from great opponents, but none of them possess the combination of speed, power and odd angles that Pac could throw from. Pac isn't the type of fighter to smother his own work while Floyd is on the ropes, either. (Eg, Hatton, Judah.) He would maintain distance and fire from a proper range. Even if only one or two get in, it might well be enough to keep Mayweather on the defensive and steal rounds on workrate.

Pac's ability to counterpunch might also have surprised Mayweather. We've seen Mayweather getting technically dropped by Judah via the right-hook counter, and the right-hook counter just happens to be Pac's second best punch. He loves timing people as they come in and catching them with that shot. If Mayweather tried his straight right hand to the body, he just might get clipped with that hook and go down. Pac's right-hook counter would be his best attempt to deal with Mayweather's straight right -- all he has to do is land it once or twice, enough to make Mayweather cautious about throwing it, and his chances would definitely improve. Very difficult to pull off (Mayweather's straight right is superb, and possibly his best punch) but not impossible. Pac is also able to use his left hand as a counter or 'attack on preparation' -- he waits for the jab, then slips to the side while shooting the straight left. Also, keep in mind that Mayweather tends to fight southpaws in a more aggressive, come forward style -- Pac would love this approach. Pac likes people coming to him, as it gives him a chances to unload combinations and hop around them, and it would also give him more chance to land a counter or two.

Mayweather breaks fighters down, piece by piece. Pac's physical and mental toughness will make him hard to break down. He won't have a meltdown like Judah, he won't fade like Hoya, and he has a better chin than Hatton.

I still think Mayweather would have won, but Pac had a chance. It would have been interesting.

 

//

 

Good points.


Some more food more thought :


Floyd has some habits that'll set himself up for Pacquiao's punches.




a) Floyd coming forward / retreating back in straight lines / laying on the ropes:

This content is protected

b ) Floyd's overreaction to feints / punches in general

This content is protected

c) Floyd pulling his head back / lining himself up for a straight left hand.

This content is protected

Throw in a nice feint, a 1-2, and this is what you might get:

This content is protected

 

Great post.

 

Throw in the right hook Zab dropped him with

I feel at this stage it's kind of pointless arguing who would win, how they could do it. Reality is it never happened and we'll never find out.

 

feint. all that's left to do is for Pac to re-discover his hunger again.

or make him angry.

 

He shouldn't be fighting anymore if he couldn't get his motivation up for his last two fights especially the Juan one.

 

very literal interpretation. "age" could mean "ring" age. floyd not fighting much doesnt make him age.

 

Good post Gander honestly.

But still, Judah is bigger than Mayweather and Pac wouldn't be enjoying the reach similarity, and how many more times did Judah land a clean left hand after Floyd felt it?

0.

 

Zab actually has very short arms. emmanuel's arms measure 23" in length, Zab only 22".

 

The difference is Zab fights tall, whereas Manny fights quite small and pretty much negates any reach he may or may not have. I said similarities in reach, not advantages.

Zab standing straight up will likely land first, vs the style of a guy who crouches and fights smaller.

 

he already has the world in his hands.

 

emmanuel doesn't even fight out of a crouch though.

Zab's counterpuncher stance actually made his body less obvious of a target, but Floyd was still able to rip him open with the str8 to the body throughout the fight making it a key punch.

I see emmanuel's squared stance being a liability for him against Mayweather. Floyd is going to flick his jab out to check emmanuel's lead hand, rendering it ineffective for the moment, before blasting a str8 to his body.

I remember Juan flicking his jab out a few times to halt emmanuel's advancement, but I haven't ever seen anyone do it the way I just described on emmanuel. There will be an element of surprise since emmanuel hasn't ever seen this technique in a real combat situation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-04I1Wmbpwo#t=4m45s

There is the maneuver I'm speaking of. Notice how Zab even squares up as he went into the high guard similar to emmanuel. Tijuana had a party with the str8 downstairs.