If Ward had of fought Bute before Froch beat him...

Ward vs Bute maybe it would've been a 50/50 fight if it would've happend before Bute vs Froch fight due Ward's lack of power but even so, when he fought with Froch , he outclassed Froch even into the brawl , so Ward proved that he's a tough fighter with a good chin. If Ward beats Dawson convincingly and Dawson comes up in the fight night completely rehydrated then Ward adds on his resume his best win , a far , far better win then it would've been Bute. Don't forget that Dawson said that he'd fight with Ward even at 168 , so his wish happened.

Bute has to rematch with Froch regardless if he will lose or win to prove that is a real fighter and he has a big heart. I think Bute can outbox Froch in their rematch , surprise him with fast combos and lateral movements (circle him) due his good athleticism.

 

Who cares about belts they are meaningless. Ward has already dominated the third and second best super middles. He has no work left at this weight unless you him to fight dirrell.

Being undefeated means nothing. All that matters is the ranking and imo bute was never better than fifth. A case can be made for fourth but no higher. As fans we shouldnt care which fighfs make the most money as long as the best are fighting the best and ward has done that. Now hes on to another very good fighter in dawson.

 

That's still kind of irrelevant though - 2 undefeated champions unifying a division is a fight that should have happened, and would have sold well. Also, as I don't think Ward would have knocked Bute out, it would have left a match with Froch and Bute as a relevant SMW fight to determine the rest of the pecking order.

Mind you, as a massive Froch fan, I'm far happier that Carl got the chance to prove his point and get the Kessler rematch he deserves.

 

I don't think when someone has NEVER been beaten, that someone else who is a champion can claim that they have 'no work left' at that weight, as if it's a foregone conclusion they'll win easily.

We're talking pre Froch/Bute here, not now.

Pre Froch/Bute, it was a relevant and necessary fight to determine the rankings at SMW. There is literally NO reasonable way to argue against that without being all revisionist about it.

Ward wants to decide what his weight class is, and if he wants to fight LHWs then he should have the grace to move up and do it.

 

How is Dawson a better win than Kessler or Froch? All three had or have 1 loss at the time of fighting Ward.

There is zero point in a Bute/Froch rematch. How often does a boxer get brutally owned over 5 rounds and deserve a rematch? It wasn't like Froch hit him with a lucky punch and knocked him sparko - he beat him senseless and outboxed him to do so.

Bute can't take a Froch right hand without wobbling. Even Ward couldn't keep Froch away for 12 rounds. As soon as Froch connects, it's the same old song and dance my friend.

 

I agree ward should move up to fight dawson, that would be an incredible accompkishment.

I disagree about bute and im surprised to hear you say this considering you are froch fan. If froch kessler or dirrell would have taken the path bute took, they would also be undefeated. Instead, they chose to take on a challenge where they won some and lost some. No shame in that, but both had bigger wins than bute and thats what counts. Thats why I always ranked both over bute. I wish there was only one belt per division, then bute would have lost before he even got close to the number one contender status.

 

obviously

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yeah, but B-Hop whooped Pascal (who beat Dawson) in their last fight :yep !

maybe Pascal would beat Dawson again , or maybe Cloud or Campillo would beat Dawson if they would fight or maybe not .....

 

Ward already was the clear No. 1 at 168. Bute was the top contender but never was champion and could make no case given his lack of quality opposition. He was a mere beltholder, a distinction you fail to make. His record against elite opponents prior to Froch was 0-0, and there are plenty of undefeated fighters out there with 0-0 records against elite opponents. By your logic it would be nearly impossible for any fighter to ever finish all of his business in a division.

To be clear, I did want Ward to fight Bute precisely because I believed strongly he would dominate him. Of course, if Bute had gone on to get stopped by Froch or someone else, Bute would have become Ward's version of Jeff Lacy. How many people cite that win as Calzaghe's best, even though Joe was the underdog?

Speaking of Calzaghe, you guys realize that he treated the Kelly Pavlik situation in identical fashion, don't you? He didn't believe the Pavlik hype, wanted him to prove himself against Hopkins, and Bernard ended up getting the money and the legacy boost. Was it a travesty that Calzaghe and Pavlik never fought? To have a travesty you need to establish devastating consequence, and I've yet to see anyone make a cogent case with respect to Ward and Bute.

It would have been a grandly hyped event (just like Calzaghe/Lacy was or Calzaghe/Pavlik would have been), but most likely would have been somewhat forgettable when assessing Ward's career in the years to follow. He already holds at least two superior wins to Bute and Dawson would be No. 3.

You may at this point counter that Ward and Bute reside in the same division, and that's a fine point if you want to make it. On the other hand, Pavlik actually had stopped the reigning middleweight king and was a *real* champion, unlike Bute.

Unification bestows meaning only if you esteem the integrity of the various straps, which I and most people don't. It's a canard you guys are employing to suggest Ward avoided Bute for competitive reasons, when in fact most of the boxing world accepts that Ward, like Calzaghe, spotted an overrated target and chose not to gift him a title shot. Andre and Joe had it right all along.

As for Dawson, he fought as a professional at 160. I'd prefer that fight at 175, too, but he says he can make 168 without trouble and maybe he can. Unless he's wrong about that, he'll pose Ward the stiffest challenge of his career. And that's a point many of us believed well before Froch annihilated Bute.

 

Not in my eyes. Would a victory over Chavez junior be better than a victory over strum? Or even winky wright at middle? Chavez is undefeated and has a belt.

For me, bute was always unproven and a victory over would mean little until he proved himself. A Dawson fight is a much better fight than a fight against bute, can't see an argument otherwise.

 

That is one smart post dude.

EDIT: I'm all for unification in any form. It helps to clear some of the wheat from the chaff.