Wladimir Klitschko is not (and never shall be) a Top 10 Heavyweight

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by JimmyShimmy, Jul 14, 2012.


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  1. JimmyShimmy

    JimmyShimmy 1050 psi Full Member

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    I actively try to avoid watching W.K fight because he makes The Noble Art look (in the words of Rowdy Roddy Piper) real ****in' ugly.

    So I just brought myself to watching the rematch with Thompson and was again dissapointed with challenger and champion. For all of Wlad's 'improvements' he remains the same gun-shy, unimaginative and incomplete fighter. And then there is Thompson who starts okay, dithers for no apparent reason, get decked, appears OK, but gives up.

    As always Wlad's defence was ropey (he even got himself into some stupid positions a solid southpaw would have grilled him for) and he invariably panics when closed on.

    I have recently read folks place him above the likes of Jack Johnson and Jack Dempsey. For all of Wlad's crimes on logic it would be downright cruel to have him oppose somebody like Dempsey.

    Being great involves showing character - Unlike Lennox Lewis, Wlad has the ugly losses minus the brave showings.

    Being great involves capturing the imagination - Yes, boxing is an competition of aesthetics as well, and seeing Wlad play a drawn out game of backwards-and-forwards kills peoples love for the game.

    Being great involves reversing defeat - Fair play for handling Brewster, but Sanders was the key one, and letting his older brother step in was the stuff of high-school.

    The longer you go the more room there is for error which is where Wlad receives good points, but his competition makes men like Tony Galento shine, and you know there's a problem if that's the case!

    Thoughts?
     
    JimmyShimmy, Jul 14, 2012
    JimmyShimmy, Jul 14, 2012
    #1
  2. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Seven year run of domination has not been matched many times. It's hard to rank him outside the top 12 all time, no matter what he does from now on.
     
    Seamus, Jul 14, 2012
    Seamus, Jul 14, 2012
    #2
  3. JimmyShimmy

    JimmyShimmy 1050 psi Full Member

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    I think its my contention 'till death with Wlad that 'numbers can be deceiving.'
     
    JimmyShimmy, Jul 14, 2012
    JimmyShimmy, Jul 14, 2012
    #3
  4. LittleRed

    LittleRed Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I'm not a huge Klitschko fan, but he wins against the best his division had to offer. Which is my criteria of a great fighter.
     
    LittleRed, Jul 14, 2012
    LittleRed, Jul 14, 2012
    #4
  5. Asterion

    Asterion Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Wlad has shown character on more than one ocassion; for example, when he beat Samuel Peter the first time. He is gun shy and defensive, but you know he had very good attacking skills, as shown in the first part of his career. Right now, when he uses them, his right hands and hooks are devastating.

    Sanders actually declined a rematch with Wlad and relinquished the WBO belt.

    I don't think boxing is a competition that involves aesthetics. That would deny greatness for many defensive fighters that have a lot of talent but are safety first. It's a personal decision to put aesthethics/entertainment > effectiveness. Finally, it's subjective to prefer one style over another, and I think that kind of decision can't interfere with all time great rankings.
     
    Asterion, Jul 14, 2012
    Asterion, Jul 14, 2012
    #5
  6. frankenfrank

    frankenfrank Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Considering Brewster vs Wlad #2 reversing defeat is ignorance .
    Brewster was pulled "fresh" out of a detached retina surgery and was offered money just so Wlad could "reverse" his loss .
    Very similar 2 McCall vs Lewis #2 & Harding vs Tarver #2 , and as legit as Griffin vs Jones #2 or Dempsey vs Tunney #2 or Schmelling vs Louis #2 if u like .
    Brewster > Wlad .
    Also , not only Sanders blitzed Wlad like no 1 else , he even outpointed Ross Puritty over 12 without going down even once , which Wlad couldn't do .
    Also , Sanders was much older than Wlad and even Vitali , and faced a much fresher Rahman than d 1 Wlad had .
    Sanders was beyond done against Vitali .
    Wladimir Klitschko is not in my top 10 HW 4 years now .
     
    frankenfrank, Jul 14, 2012
    frankenfrank, Jul 14, 2012
    #6
  7. Asterion

    Asterion Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    You can't compare Wlad vs. Brewster 2 to Lewis vs. McCall 2. Brewster had been beltholder until the previous year, wasn't so old. He had retina surgery , had time to recover and decided to continue with his boxing career. Simple as that.

    McCall was just a crazy guy.
     
    Asterion, Jul 14, 2012
    Asterion, Jul 14, 2012
    #7
  8. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    I'm not a fan but I think I rate him top10, obviously depends on criteria.
     
    PowerPuncher, Jul 14, 2012
    PowerPuncher, Jul 14, 2012
    #8
  9. frankenfrank

    frankenfrank Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Wrong . Xcusing him not fighting his brother , your statement here never held true :

    2002 - good win over Jameel McCline , admittedly , but since then :


    2003 - TKO2 by Sanders
    2004 - TKO by Brewster
    2005-2009 Y no Valuev ?

    2011 - picking Haye over Chisora was and is Xcusable , but later ?
    2012 - ****ing 39yo JMMormeck & 41 years old Tony Thompson rather than Dereck Chisora or a David Haye rematch

    could have fought Joe Mesi in 2003
    could have fought Dominick Guinn
    could have fought Michael Grant
    could have fought Lance Whitaker right up 2 2005
    could have fought Kirk Johnson at least up 2 2003 if not up 2 2006

    But he let his big brother do all d work 4 him and used Jameel McCline as a policeman and Monte Barrett as a paper policeman .
     
    frankenfrank, Jul 14, 2012
    frankenfrank, Jul 14, 2012
    #9
  10. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Which hints at real bias. Perhaps you are not the man to make this judgement?

    And if a fastish KO over the Ring's #10 contender doesn't change that, nothing ever will.

    Demspey might beat Wlad, but that is not what ATG rangings are for most people.

    Character like coming back from brutal KO's to become one of the most successful boxers in the world and one of the most dominant fighters in the history of his sport?

    Character like refusing to acknowledge his families insistence that he should consider retirement?

    Character like banning the older brother who had protected him and supported him mall his life so he could do things his way?

    Character like persisting at a sport he doesn't need to shore him up financially because it means so much to him?

    That kind of character?

    Or are you speaking purely in sporting terms, so only thing like his coming back from multiple knockdowns to come back and destroy a feared puncher? In that case watch Wlad-Peter.

    So if a fighter doesn't capture my imagination, he isn't great?

    Or are you speaking in wider terms? If you're speaking in wider terms, start a thread in General that apes this one and check the reaction. You will see that he has captured the imagination of a whole generation of central Europeans, and others. In addition, he is a classy, intelligent, well spoken sportsman who doesn't abuse drugs or women. As a roll-model i'd suggest he utterly supplants any HW champ in history.

    Boxing is about more than your own opinions or those you come across in your back garden.

    Loads of great fighters have let defeats go unavenged but remain great. It's certainly a black mark against him but it isn't one that can "prevent" him from being great. You could certainly argue that it hurts his standing.


    I think you're hard on his competition and that Galento would have been right at home amongst them. I don't think he would seem outstanding at all were he a part of this era. He would be a part of the pack.
     
    McGrain, Jul 14, 2012
    McGrain, Jul 14, 2012
    #10
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  11. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    He is a positive role model ,as is his brother , boring but solid , he doesn't make my top ten ,and I doubt he will change it at this stage of his career.
     
    mcvey, Jul 14, 2012
    mcvey, Jul 14, 2012
    #11
  12. JimmyShimmy

    JimmyShimmy 1050 psi Full Member

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    For me the Peters victory highlighted the incompetence of both fighters.

    Wlad wasn't even hurt but had a panic attack on the last knockdown and Peters inability to press a man on the run was horrid.
     
    JimmyShimmy, Jul 14, 2012
    JimmyShimmy, Jul 14, 2012
    #12
  13. Boxed Ears

    Boxed Ears this my daddy's account (RIP daddy) Full Member

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    My criteria is whether or not I can picture him ****ing Salma Hayek while riding a unicorn across a double rainbow. In my imagination, I mean. I cannot. And that's how you judge greatness. Therefore, he does not break my top fifty and anyone who thinks he does is delusional and DKSAB. He isn't part of my top fifty now and never will be.











































    **** Jose Sulaiman.
     
    Boxed Ears, Jul 14, 2012
    Boxed Ears, Jul 14, 2012
    #13
  14. frankenfrank

    frankenfrank Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    R U sure about Brewster being given enough time 2 recover ? that's not what i read .

    Never claimed McCall was old 4 d Lewis rematch , and his problem in it was not creazyness . It was craze though . Withdrawal syndrome .
    Pulled fresh out of a rehab institute , where he signed d contract at .

    Y can't i compare ? it just equates so well .
     
    frankenfrank, Jul 14, 2012
    frankenfrank, Jul 14, 2012
    #14
  15. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    Let me think about this one moment or 2........
     
    PowerPuncher, Jul 14, 2012
    PowerPuncher, Jul 14, 2012
    #15
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