"Montreal" Roberto Duran vs. "New Orleans" Sugar Ray Leonard

No, he'd have always had trouble with that style, regardless of whether or not he'd quit.

What Leonard did was no problem at all considering the **** Duran pulled before their first fight.

 

Really?

I'm what one could call a fence rider. I don't really agree with arrogance in the ring, and I certainly don't agree with a fighter quitting when they were simply irritated more than anything else (Duran wasn't physically hurt beyond being able to continue ).

 

Remember to count Senor Ayala among those few.......

 

Well get off the fence! He commented that Leonards showboating was worse than Duran's quitting - ripping millions of people off.

So pick one whether you agree both acts were shitty or not, which one was worse?

Bear in mind Duran did such things as calling Leonards wife a ***** before the first fight while giving her the finger, among other things. How would you feel if it was say your wife? Little wonder Leonard came out hammering and played right into Duran's hands. Also little wonder Leonard felt quite good in making a fool out of Duran in the rematch and gave him all the **** he could.

:yep

 

How could i ever forget!

 

Regarding pure "shittiness" I think Duran's quitting was worse. That said, I appreciate Duran far more than Leonard regarding honourable boxing in the ring.

 

He was definitely ready in III, how could he not be after his supposed mistakes in II and at long last the chance of redemption? I think you yourself have said many times he fought on to such a ripe old age trying to make up for the second SRL fight, well here he was with the instant opportunity.

Personally i feel he just wasn't good enough at these times full stop.

Duran was also surprising good at reading Ray Leonard's shots in the first fight. His anticipation is uncanny, and if one anticipates this well he does negate speed to an extent. Age i would think would not have as much an effect on anticipation as reflex. I agree speed mixed with power was indeed a lot more dangerous to him, to anyone really, but speed in particular.

Your expansion to include Leonards speed does make me follow your comments better, but the fact is Barkley hit him plenty of times with big shots and he kept coming back for more, still taking risks in order to win. I still can't fathom him being what i would summise to be almost fearful, of Leonards power. Leonard threw his sunday bests at Duran in the first fight and he relished still coming into the firing line and trading bombs. It was his best way of winning, and Leonard welcomed it. In the rematch Leonard wasn't so accomodating, and in the third rubber Leonard was simply far too fast on his feet for Duran to ever close the distance and get into the fight he would have liked IMO. By comparison Barkley was always there to be found, and Durans still brilliant skills and experience got him home. These same skills and experience weren't enough to fight competitively with Leonard, a Leonard we also now know with hindsight to be well worn.

Bottom line for me - Duran would have welcomes taking punches with open arms from Leonard if it gave him some sort of chance of winning the third fight.

He wasn't ever quite as good again, but lets dig a bit deeper. Against Cuevas and Moore he fought brilliantly, totally fired up and controllably wild, and they just happen to be opponents again, who were quite easy to find. We then see him put on a great exhibition vs Hagler, in a fight that Hagler was getting the better of inside exchanges and Duran was looking to stand off more in. After that he is totally outgunned by an on fire Hearns, but comes back an incredible 5 years later to beat Barkley. In between he was only beaten by the slick Sims.

Post Leonard we have 7 losses.

Leonard II - Leonard uses slick boxing.

Benitez - another blessed with multitudes of speed.

Hagler - One of the greatest middles ever and not a fight we expected Duran to win.

Hearns - totally outgunned by scythe like speed and power.

Sims - slick boxer of average ability.

6 of these are what we would call very speedy fighters. I will maintain that the Benitez Duran fought would have still beaten the Duran that beat Moore and fought Hagler by quite some margin.

Hearns was far more professional and consistent, coming into all bouts in great shape and fully prepared regardless of percieved opposition. Even so i still think Duran gets physical and motivational passes a little too conveniently at times.

It's almost as if Duran only ever lost fights where he was not ready or out of shape, and would have never been definitely beaten excepting Hagler (and possibly Leonard III) thru to 1990 if always in great perceived shape. I don't quite agree. I know you yourself haven't quite said as much, but it is the impression i get from many. He lost 60 pounds for Leonard II, wasn't motivated for Benitez (title fight and redemption opportunity), wasn't motivated for Laing, Sims or Hearns, etc.

 

Ok, so you're not on the fence regarding which was worse

 

I think the Duran who beat Leonard beats ANY version of Leonard, but who knows.

I do know that the first fight is the only decent fight of theirs worth watching again. The second and third fights are bull****.

 

It's an enigma...

 

Leonard, by competitive decision.

 

You're the enigma

 

Family should be strictly off limits so I can understand why Leonard was incensed at Duran - hence the showboating in the second fight. I forgot about those incidents before the first fight. Sorry.

 

Hey no worries, each to their own opinion anyway mate

:good

 

Leonard UD12 Duran