Dempsey vs Wills with a twist

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by janitor, Aug 23, 2012.


  1. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    If the colour bar had never existed.

    Which of them would have got the title first?
     
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Wills would have taken it from Langford, probably, if no colour bar existed.
     
  3. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Would the title go to Peter Jackson years before that and sift down a different path completely?
     
  4. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    If you go that far back, the picture gets very complex indeed.
     
  5. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    It already did in most parts of the world.
     
  6. Asterion

    Asterion Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Wills. Dempsey would've never been champ.
     
  7. ripcity

    ripcity Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Harry Wills would have beaten Jack Johnson in 1915 or 1916.
     
  8. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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  9. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    Wills would dethrone either Johnson or Willard if he get's his shot. Willard ducked Fulton and Wills, so it's not just the 'colour bar', the 'colour bar' is just an excuse to duck an opponent anyway. Just because there's no colour bar doesn't automatically give Wills a title shot

    Langford likely never beats Johnson
     
  10. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Johnson, he was so inactive and out of shape that I struggle to see him beating the versions of langford and mcvey that exchanged the coloured championship round about 1912. Be it from the sam's, johnson or willard, harry would take the title round about 1916. Hard to say if jack would ever take it off him.
     
  11. Webbiano

    Webbiano Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    :good
     
  12. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    Wills would have fought Willard and defeated him in 1917 or 1918 setting up a possible huge fight with a prime Dempsey in 1919 ... a 24 year old Dempsey v.s. a 30 year old Wills ... that would have been a fight , prime for extremely close to prime ... love hearing how Wills is pushed aside by hard core Dempsey guys for losing at ages 37 and 38 ... the 1919 version was significantly bigger than Dempsey, very active and defeated far better opposition ... who wins ? Who knows but to dismiss Wills is simply wrong.
     
  13. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    yeah after beating Jeffries Johnson only had 3 successful defences in 5 years against Flynn (knocked out by Langford a couple of years prior), Jim Johnson (coming off a trio of losses to Jeannette) and Moran (coming off loses top McCarthy and Smith). During this time Langford only lost two close fights to Clark and Smith (both of whom he knocked out in rematches).

    All the while Johnson was getting further out of shape and older whilst Sam was bang in his prime. A fit Johnson would always beat a fit Langford but I'm not sure that would have been the reality between 1911 and 1915.
     
  14. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    He said he was peak against Jeffries though, so I'm not sure he was deteriated that much. If he was fighting Langford he'd probably make an effort to be in shape too

    In a reality where there is no colour bar, Johnson also doesn't get run out the country and is quite possibly a more active champion
     
  15. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    While Wills was undoubtedly seen as a contender for Dempsey, I have not found that much media interest in matching him for the title when Willard was champion.

    The papers seem to talk about Fulton, Moriss, Dillon and Levinsky as the contenders tochallenge Willard.