Julio Cesar Chavez greater than Joe Louis, yes?

None of those fights are listed among his title fights either.

 

Chavez >> Louis .
Louis' title defenses were almost exclusively vs bums .
And who knows how many of his fights were worked .
Louis was KOd by past his prime Schmelling FFS .

 

Not b4 either :yep

 

I'm saying the title statistics are rather misleading considering that Chavez was hardly the best in his division from 1994 onwards.

 

Louis Lucky against Walcott? That was one of the best fight finishing combinations ever thrown before by a champion. Louis was 34 years old, past his prime in 1948, and defeated a prime top 20 ATG heavyweight by knockout.

 

I think I've already stated the definite facts that argue against Chavez's statistics. The argument that Chavez did not truly reign as a champion from 1994 onwards, which he didn't (The Ring Magazine for example never again had him as the number 1) is only a follow-up to what facts I had already laid down earlier without a response to them.

First of all trying to argue that one fighter is better than the other based on mere statistics is foolish enough, secondly the comparison is hardly fair as Chavez was not the "man" for a period of time during his "reign" and many of the "title" opponents that he fought were certainly not recognized as the true champions in their divisions at any single point in their careers.

The same cannot be said for Louis's time, when there was only one single belt around. Try and dig up how many opponents Chavez beat that were recognized as the best in their divisions at some point in their careers, and you'll most likely not end up with a number greater than Louis's. This despite Chavez campaigning from super featherweight up to welterweight while Louis only conceivably had two different divisions to pick opponents from.

Both of them fought their share of below average opponents, certainly Chavez more so than Louis, it's better we focus on the quality of opposition they faced.

 

TheGreatA, I think you are wasting your time here, MMJoe's (and Fraknenfrank's) minds are already made up on this, there is nothing you can do to change it.

I am reminded of the old saying "thereare lies, damned lies, and statistics...".

Or another..."my mind is made up, don't confuse me with the truth...".

 

As an example Joe Louis most certainly fought more Hall of Famers than Chavez ever did, which again is another misleading statistic as heavyweights have often been more likely to receive the honour than smaller, more under-appreciated fighters although in truth Louis did probably fight more memorable opponents than Chavez.

The statistics alone do not have enough merit, otherwise we would be crowning boxers like this as legends. In order to get to the bottom of it you must know extensively about the era and its fighters as well as their abilities, which you won't by merely looking up their given records. I won't say that there is no argument to rate Chavez above Louis but if there is an argument then pointing towards his record alone is not it. Neither should Louis automatically be considered the greatest heavyweight due to his record title defenses.

 

I do think Chavez was probably the better fighter. As in, if they were the same size, I might pick him.

Joe was greater all things considered though, but not by some massive distance. 10 spots or so on my list.

 

I agree with all you say here TheGreatA.

My own view is that Louis is a greater fighter than Chavez although not for statistical reasons; I also consider Louis the greatest heavyweight, though again not for statistical reasons!

 

Joe Louis was without a doubt greater than JC Chavez...Joe Louis is most likely the MOST dominating heavyweight ever. He held the championship for 13 years ,and was so feared by almost all his opposition. And he is considered by any rational boxing historian
as the greatest all around puncher ever in boxing and the top 3 in his division...
Chavez though a great LW in not in the top 5 greatest by all acounts....
P.S. sure Louis fought some stiffs in his time, but a man can only fight fighters of his
generation. No more, no less...