Julio Cesar Chavez greater than Joe Louis, yes?

Are you saying that Chavez defended his title against 16 opponents who were ranked in the top 10?

Ruben Castillo
Roger Mayweather
Refugio Rojas
Rocky Lockridge
Juan Laporte
Jose Luis Ramirez
Sammy Fuentes
Meldrick Taylor
John Duplessis
Angel Hernandez
Hector Camacho
Greg Haugen
Terrence Alli

These were the top 10 ranked men that Chavez defended his title against, many of them not even ranked at the time he fought them, several were fringe contenders barely making the top 10. According to my count that makes 13. Who else?

And again I was never arguing for quantity or statistics, I was arguing for quality. You're missing the point.

 

Lonnie Smith, Tony Lopez, David Kamau, Giovanni Parisi, and I'm pretty sure Oscar was ranked too at the time of their first bout.

 

Pure boxrec analysis from the OP. Again.

 

Chavez was technically DQ'd early on in his career. Only local bias and connections saw that overturned so in reality his winning streak should be much shorter.

They're both in the top 30 for me.

Chavez never faced anyone outweighing him as much as Louis did, which levels out their actual 'P4P achievements'.

I think it's unfair to get into a pissing contest over two greats like this. Splitting hairs over the careers of these two isn't worth the time IMO.

 

What is the point? I'm saying you can't rate boxers by looking at the numbers alone.

For purposes of discussion we left out the latter part of Chavez's reign as he was no longer considered the top fighter in his division. Louis never had the option to make title defenses without being the top fighter in his division as there was only one person worthy of holding a title. The likes of Lonnie Smith were also rated 6 years prior to Chavez fighting them.

Either way there's no distinctive difference to be made. It's not an argument I originally made, I simply don't understand what the thread starter is getting at here. Chavez's number of title defenses against ranked contenders hardly puts Louis to shame and Chavez had 4 different divisions to choose opponents from.

 

I'd say this is more of an argument about how to rate a fighter's greatness than it is an argument between Chavez and Louis, atleast from my point of view. The same statistics that have been used to prove Chavez's greatness over Louis can be used against nearly any fighter who ever lived. Nobody ever said that Chavez's record didn't look good, on paper. The substance though can be argued.

 

Oh, I'm not questioning you, just the agenda and analytical ability of the OP.

Who is a proven mong by the way. He has me on ignore, mainly because he's a complete ****** who never makes a valid point.

 

I guess somebody had to take up the task.

Mainly I'm just trying to say that it's better to watch the fights and learn the game instead of talking numbers and statistics, even if it is inevitably a part of the argument to be made when it comes to a boxer's greatness. I don't have as much of a problem with the original point as I do about the way that it was made.

 

Smith was considered the 10th welterweight in the same year they fought. Also, I'm not sure who would that top fighter in his division be, but I think you got me wrong here. I wasn't saying Chavez is greater than Louis, even though Julio is my 2nd favourite boxer all-time.

 

2 elite ATGs.

 

After 1994, Tszyu and De La Hoya were considered the number 1 and 2 light welterweights in the world. Chavez was at best top 3.

I knew you were simply correcting (although I did purposefully leave those opponents out), I was talking about the thread starter's original point which was that Louis "only" defended his title against 16 ranked contenders. Didn't bother to double-check that number but either way Chavez hardly puts him to shame.

Another factor to be taken into account in arguments such as this are the different standards and rulesets of each era. The numbers alone won't convey that. There is no way to objectively measure the amount of title fights of a boxer who could only hope to contest for a single title in comparison to a boxer who could contest for four.

 

Sir, don't try to distort the facts to win your argument...
1-YES Joe Louis won the HWT Title in 1937..He was the heavyweight champion til he lost the title to Ezzard Charles in 1950...It doesn;t take a mathemetician to come to THIRTEEN years Louis held the title !!!
2-Yes Chavez fought everyone of HIS time...He was one of my favorite "modern" lightweights, but he didn't hold the crown even close to 13 years
and today he is not regarded in the top 5 great lightweights of alltime as the immortal Joe Louis was as a heavyweight destroyer...So MM it is so kind of you to say "is there any FACTS I got right "?...You should direct your question to YOURSELF, instead of me...

 

Do you ACTUALLY think it was a draw?