Do people really rate Roy Jones win over Bernard Hopkins?

:rofl:rofl:rofl

 

:rofl:rofl:rofl

 

Regarding Jackson vs Jones - their careers didn't miss each other completely. When Jackson was WBC champion, he was rated by many as the #1 middleweight in the world for some time during '92 to early 93.

With both Jackson and McClellan (I think) being with King, that was obviously an easy match to make. Jones was rated highly by the IBF and never wanted to work with King, so he went for the vacant IBF title in May '93 - the same month as Jackson-McClellan.

The usual politics was why the fight didn't happen. Jackson was coming towards the end of his prime, yet not already shot. Had Jones targeted Jackson, it was possible he'd have got a wbc title shot before McClellan. Jones was probably ready by the end of '92 and it could've been an awesome fight.

 

Yet,again, you're under some sort of weird assumption that EUBANK WANTED TO FIGHT JONES!!!...HE DIDN'T!!!

A fight with Collins was pretty much signed but Collins collapsed in the ring,on his comeback and the fight never happened.

 

Skittlez,

Part 1.

Have you seen it? Do you know who Fred Levin is?

Go and watch it. Fred was incredibly frustrated because Roy Snr was holding him back. Fred got big fights lined up, but Roy Snr pretended that he'd discussed them with Roy, when he hadn't even mentioned them to him. That's the truth. Go and look into it, and then get back to me.

I know this. Roy had great respect for Eubank, and I've heard him say that Chris would have caused him a lot of trouble, and I agree, he'd have been very awkward for Roy. But your ridiculously biased post is accusing Roy of ducking him.


Eubank has stated numerous times, that Roy was never his mandatory, and he never chased the big fights in America, because he was content, doing what he was doing. Which was fighting for decent money in Britain on Sky. I've got nothing but respect for Eubank's honesty.

In the early 90's Micheal was a fantastic fighter. But by the late 90's, he was a shell of what he once was. He was fighting B class opposition, and his best days were long gone.

And?

You haven't read my original post properly have you?


Before Hopkins, while Toney was fighting Nunn and McCallum, and while McCallum was fighting Kalambay etc, Roy Snr was having Roy fight nobodies in Pensacola fairgrounds.


After Hopkins, yes Roy was rated. If he'd have STAYED at 160, he would have had opportunites to fight the guys that you've mentioned. But apart from Tate, go and look at his weights after Hopkins. He was going up as high as 168, and at 24, going on 25, he was becoming tight at that weight. You haven't taken any of this into consideration have you? If Roy had've progressed quicker, instead of being held back, he'd probably have been in the mix. James Toney is only a year older than Roy.


Your post is so biased, it's a joke!


If Roy had've stayed at 160, but not fought any of those guys, then fair enough. But he moved up to 168 and challenged the best fighter.


Now your post is implying that he was scared of Jackson, Nunn and McCallum etc, so instead, he ran away upto 168, to avoid them.


Do you know how ridiculous that sounds?


If he was afraid of those guys at 160, then why the **** would he have MOVED UP and fought James Toney, who was undefeated, and classed as one of the best fighters in the World?? Roy was an underdog going into the fight.

If you're scared of those challengers at 160, the last thing you'd do is fight Toney at 168 in 1994. It's ridiculous! You're too biased to have a proper debate with.

 

Part 2.

I've discussed Nunn and Jackson. Eubank as discussed, was never in a position to fight Roy. How the **** did Roy blatently avoid him? Come on Einstein!


The Benn/King saga has been discussed to death.

Don was greedy and wanted options on Roy, and Roy WANTED a one fight deal only. Neither man would back down, and the fight never got made.

So you explain to me, how he ducked Benn?

Yeah Roy was terrified of big punchers, that's why he moved upto heavy and was desperate for his dream fight with Tyson!

Yes we know Mike in 2003 was shot, but he was still dangerous, and Roy was desperate for that fight.


He also had talks with Holyfield, prior to Holy's final fight against Ruiz.

Everything had been agreed in principal, (Roy had enormous respect for Evander) but Holy went onto lose to Ruiz in their third fight late 2001.

Afterwards Roy was asked if he still wanted the fight. Roy said no, because he didn't think he'd get any credit for the win. So he stayed at 175 another year, and told his advisor Murad Muhammad to try and get a title fight with Ruiz.

So, had Holy won in 2001, Roy WOULD have fought him.

So according to you, he was scared to death of punchers, but he would have fought Evander, and his dream fight was against Tyson.

As we know he fought Ruiz, who wasn't great, but he was effective. He certainly wasn't a complete bum. He didn't have a high knockout ratio against other heavies, but he was a big puncher to someone like Roy coming up from 175. He'd knocked Holy down who had a good chin, and he outweighed Roy naturally by over 30 pounds.


So to summarise, Roy was terrified of Benn at 26, but was trying to fight Tyson at nearly 35?

Makes perfect sense doesn't it?

You really are an idiot aren't you?

Did I say they all avoided Roy?

Roy moved up!

Benn desperately wanted the fight, but King stood in the way.

Eubank wasn't interested.

Nunn wanted the fight, but as discussed, by the late 90's, he wasn't the same fighter. Roy should have fought him. But by 98/99 Nunn wasn't relevant anymore.

Roy unified the division.

Roy had absolutely no business whatsoever fighting at heavy!


As discussed, Ruiz wasn't great. But he wasn't a complete bum either. Many people had Ruiz down to beat Roy. Why was that?

Lewis was more than up for the fight before he fought Vitali. After Vitali, he wasn't interested in fighting again. Go and read Zod's great links.

As discussed, if things had turned out differently in Holy's final fight with Ruiz, Roy would have fought Evander instead. So he didn't cherry pick Ruiz.


But even if he had have done, it was still a great achievement.


Why don't you list all the fighters that did what Roy did?

If it was that easy everyone would do it. Can you see someone like Ward moving up to fight a heavy? Any heavy? I don't think so. But again, you're so biased, it's impossible to debate with you.

No it doesn't. But for the millionth time, the fight with Benn couldn't be made.


I agree that Roy should have fought Nunn. But not at 160. At 175 when Nunn was mandatory, yes, but in my honest opinion, there wasn't much point at that time.

??

Very true. But where does that say he didn't want to face him, because he was scared etc?

Really?

Beating Griffin, Reggie Johnson, Hill, Woods and Gonzalez with ease?

Beating Harding, and a fired up hungry Tarver, at nearly 35, after 50 fights, and after coming back from Heavy?

Stop embarrassing yourself!

So the **** what??? And??

But guess what??

He turned down two opportunities to go to America, to go and get them back!

What does that say to you?

Oh I know, Roy ducked him right?

Because Roy didn't want to go to Germany in 2001, he ducked him?


Come back to me, without being so biased, and we can have a good debate.



Regards, Loudon.

 

Fascinating stuff Loudon. Most of the debates that go on are speculated and based on opinion . Its unfortunate that guy is a bit nuts and wont take those facts on board.

Great work though.

 

Bailey,

Haha! Apart from discussing how Roy Snr held him back, and listing his opponents and his weights that he was fighting at etc, etc?

What the hell are you rambling on about?

I know who DM fought, and I know what happened.

But you're conveniently forgetting the fact, that DM had an opportunity to fight Roy in the U.S. AND HE DIDN'T GO!

I'll try and find a link, but I assumed it was common knowledge.

Roy had tremendous respect for Eubank, and said, if they'd have fought, he'd have been very awkward.

But like I say, Eubank has admitted that he was happy doing what he was doing with Frank, fighting on Sky, and Roy was never his mandatory, and he never chased the big fights.

Nobody is suggesting that Eubank was scared of Roy etc. But he never chased the big fights. I thought that was very honest and I respect him for that.

But then you get people like Skittlez, saying Roy ducked him.

How on earth did Roy duck him?

Regards, Loudon.

 

Cheers mate!

 

*****

 

It's not just my opinion though is it?

You like to boxrec don't you?

Go and boxrec who Roy was fighting, while he was supposed to be ducking these guys at 160.

Go and boxrec his weights that he was fighting at, before he fought Toney.

Go and watch beyond the Glory.

Go and read General Zod's thread titled, Benn, Jones and King.

My posts contain factual information, from various sources.

But I can't win with guys like you and Skittlez.

For example, I referred to Fred Levin, in Beyond the Glory, and Skittlez instantly dismissed it, by saying he thought it was all made up etc.

You guys are so biased, it's impossible to have a reasoned debate with you.

Regards, Loudon.

 

Ha!

 

London laying the smack down up in here !:good

 

I am not sure I have witnessed such a thrashing on ESB...

Nice work Loudon!