Is Ali's win over Foreman a tad over rated?

Not over rated. Ali at times appeared to be almost out on his feet and on the verge of losing during his battle with Foreman. I heard that just after Foreman was counted out, Ali fainted in the ring but it was not seen in most of the fight videos because the view was blocked by all of the people who had climbed into the ring by that time. Ali quickly revived but he had absorbed terrible punishment and was passing blood for some time after the fight.

 

No Way!!! Foreman would have crushed any other heavyweight that night. Ali was forced to fight the way that he did because foreman cut the ring off too well, limiting the space that ali had to operate in. This, along with foremans brutal punching power made foreman a most formidable opponent that would have been successful in any era.

However, ali dealt with the situation that he was faced with and not only outsmarted george but out fought him as well as out muscled him. He turned what was predicted to be certain defeat into one of the greatest upsets in history.

 

It wasn't one of the greatest upsets in history. The odds tell the story. There is no better way to measure an upset.

Foreman was a 3-1 favorite. That's it

Contrast that to a few real upsets:

Douglas - Tyson (1990) 42-1
Rahman - Lewis (2001) 20-1
Sanders - Wladamir Klitschko (2003) 20-1
Randall - Julio Cesar Chavez (1994) 15-1
Braddock - Max Baer (1935) 10-1
Clay-Liston (1964) 8-1
Turpin - Robinson (1951) 7-1
Tunney - Dempsey (1926) 6-1

 

Foreman beat Lyle like a boss, Foreman KO'd him in 5, Ali took 11 to KO Lyle, Jimmy Young beat Lyle 2x. Ali and Foreman both lost to Young, also Ali never beat ken Norton. But that is not the topic here son so try to keep to the facts.

Foreman never had a prime, he retired before it came. His second run at the title in his 40's when he was old and fat proves my point. The man that could have been between those two men would have been his prime but that man did not happen.

 

It was n't so much a case of Frazier's chin. More his natural style of fighting was like manna from Heaven for Foreman.

 

Or the one who nearly fought Larry Holmes in 1999

 

Ali technically didn't KO Lyle, the referee stopped while Lyle was ahead and just tired, Lyle was conserving energy also how the hell could one judge score it even for Ali after those 11 rounds Lyle was clearly ahead.
He didn't even drop Lyle.
But using his stamina was always a strategy of Ali...

Ali won maybe 1 fight against Norton.
Maybe because it could go easily to Norton his way.

Anyway Young beat Lyle in a much more convincing and easier way than Ali with just a little movement....

 

Ecto....you are correct. The odds of 3-1 did not represent the general feeling both fan and boxing community based. Very few gave Ali a chance handsome felt he would get seriously injured.

Regarding Ali vs Lyle....going into that bout Lyles camp saw one fighter after another exhaust themselves trying to ko Ali only to lose in the end. Lyles strategy as per Lyle in his interview with Cosel was....."trying not to beat him". Ali at the same time spoke of introducing a new form of ropeadope called "the mirage" which was covering up mid ring rather than against the ropes. The fight was uneventful....Lyle did not try to take the title instead. Leaning on Ali punching in spurts although he was doing as much as Ali he was not trying to take the title which hurt him in the scoring. Fight was close at it's end because of this and certainly reflected the action in the ring. Concerning the stoppage the poster needs to watch them fight....Lyle was hit with one of the more perfect one two combinations in hwt history and collapsed against the ropes. Ali then hit him at will with a dozen or more punches culminating in an on the button left hook that jerked Rons head violently. Stopped too soon? Perhaps but it was a legit call by the ref...Lyle was not blocking Alis punches and was being hit cleanly on the chin....he was also at the same time not fighting back.

 

I don't think the standing 8 count was waved.
That would have been a much better option than directly waving it off.

And if he really was coming to lose it was a fix and the win has totally zero importance on Ali his resume.

 

Yeah, Foreman was green as a leaf at 25 with 30+ pro fights that included perhaps the most emphatic destruction of an ATG (and undefeated) champion in the history of boxing. A new definition of rookie to me, but whatever floats your boat.

 

Overrated? Maybe by some, but the bigger myth is that Ali took a beating. He took some punishment, but it pales in comparison to his fights with Frazier, Shavers or even some of the Norton fights.

Foreman won 2 rounds max before the KO. Ali was not far behind, as many would have you believe.

 

Why is the odds of 3-1 being treated as a gimme?

He MAY have been 3-1 in some places, he was definitely 7-1 in others. He was certainly 7-1 in the bookies in Ireland that i know off.

 

First....no one is saying Lyle came to lose. Lyles comments referred to his strategy of not punching himself out as all others did. So instead of attacking Ali with both fists trying to score points and win instead he picked his shots and did not overextend himself. At the end of 10 Lyle was ahead in a close fight.

Secondly as per the Ring record book from 1975, 1976 and 1977 the final odds of the Ali foreman fight were 3-1. In no way does that reflect the feeling of just about everyone going into the bout. Some thought Ali would get seriously injured. Even Cosell a close Ali friend gave him no chance.

 

no. Foreman was a young 25 and destroying everyone from clubfighters to top flight heavyweights as tho he possesed the hammer of Thor

On the other hand Leonard's win over Hagler is GREATLY overrated