overachievement

no such thing as over-achievement in boxing.

 

I think Evander Holyfield overachieved. A small HW with about average firepower.. But with a great chin and an iron will, he managed to climb to ATG status.

 

He overachieved from fly up to 130/135.

For the most part, everything since then has been a dog-and-pony-shot - more down to careful matchmaking and aggressive marketing than what he's done. (although he's done his part)

 

I don't think he overachieved at all really.

If you train as hard as he does, and possess the talent he does, you don't overachieve. People will argue his run above 135lbs he overachieved, but it was clear to see by his skill level he was capable of pulling off the wins he did. It's not like he landed lucky punches on all the guys above 135lbs (or below for that matter). He outclassed them over 12 rounds for the most part.

 

It was the opposite. His only accomplishments that matter to me are from fly through super feather (and we can toss in that one stint at lightweight, I guess)

Since then, his accomplishments outside of Cotto may look nice on paper but have all been subject to valid picking apart.

In his fly-light run the impressive underscore is that he overachieved in the sense of reaching the heights he did based almost purely on innate talents (speed, power) instead of refined boxing skill. Even after so long with Roach, he improved his skills somewhat but never fully reinvented & redefined himself the way a MAB did. MAB went from brawler to master boxer. Pacquiao went from fast jittery brawler with virtually no boxing skill to fast jittery brawler with a smidgen.

 

Where did cotto overachieved?

 

I said over 135lbs just for the fact that the performances against much bigger men are seen as great, and for a while will most likely be seen as his best wins, unfortunately.

But I don't think any of these guys have overachieved. Rare, extreme cases of overachieving in this sport, and none of the mentioned are that. I can't think of any boxers at the minute that have. Whether it's athleticism or skill that assist your achievements, unless it's lucky punches or one off performances to pick up world titles, etc...I don't consider it over achievement. Pacquiao has consistently proven he belongs in the ring with his opponents, and is greater than almost all of them. There is no luck about his resume, or his best wins.

 

Well when you consider there are guys in their FORTIES as champions, is it overachieving or is the current state of boxing full of paper champions. Everybody says the heavies is bad, heck you still have Morales, Mosley, Marquez in the lighter weights. I say champions are underachieving. No way FORTY year olds are competitive back in the day.

 

Three vastly different examples that don't really prove a cohesive point, man.

Mosley is shot, and retired.

Morales is semi-shot, and able to leave fans scratching their heads by looking terrific against some top guys but not others and looking really poor against some middling guys but not others. He's really all over the place. (same with Jorge Arce)

Marquez, firing on all cylinders as he is right now, would be competitive in any era. He's never shown any signs of being shot the way Mosley clearly is, and Morales has kind of looked to be at times over the last several years. The only time he's looked bad is against Mayweather and well, that's ****ing Mayweather.

 

what a crock of ****. A run of DLH, Cotto, Clottey, Hatton, Margarito, Moseley, Bradley and Marquez x 2 is careful matchmaking a aggressive marketing? WHo else other than the obvious could he have fought? Remember he looked unbeatable in every round of all but 2 or 3 of those fights.

 

I'm wondering which posters on this thread bet on Pacquaio when he fought Cotto and Oscar.

 

Pacquiao is great for his accomplishments up through 135.

Those >>>> everything since except Cotto.

Drained shot zombie Oscar, scared non-engaging Clottey, overrated and massively disadvantaged in hand speed Margarito, shot to absolute **** Mosley, and ruined Hatton don't count for much.

You can't include Bradley as a win unless you omit Marquez x2. Can't have it both ways.

 

Gatti. With all his personal problem with drugs, booze party life etc...2time world champ and hall of famer.

 

Many were saying Cotto & Oscar would be too big and strong for Pac but when Pacquiao wins, they don't give him credit.