Dempsey v Langford

i agree with this and part of dempsey's defense was his offense...like tyson, few wanted to risk getting blasted by dempsey and he buried opponents under punches. however, he could be hit and i simply can't pretend the tunney fights didn't happen. prime or not, they showed massive flaws in dempseys game. against firpo, he was almost as sloppy as the wild man himself and firpo was a very good but not GREAT puncher.

 

and as beautiful as the dempsey roll was, it was also kind of predictable. a master timer would be able to find ample counters

 

Langford was dropped by men not regarded as punchers ,Porky Flynn [x2] , Jim Barry 7-1-0 .When he was a big welter weight by lightweight Dave Holly.And by Jack Johnson's sparring partner 6-5-1 Kid Cotton. The odds on who survives each others artillery are about even ,imo.

 

Was Dempsey genuinely put out for the count? I think the jury's still out on that.
I think Dempsey has superior evasiveness based on extant film


To capsulate .

Equal durability, one shot power probably Langford. = 50/50 match up for me.

 

Allot of posts discussing the style and ability of a fighter that doesn't have enough footage to judge either of those things.

If you were a bookie you wouldn't take bets on this fight because you wouldn't have enough info to assess the odds

I imagine you behind your screen chuckling as you keep repeating this

EDIT I think you have or maybe I just have clicked on this page more than once, scratches head

 

other than fulton, is there any missing prime dempsey footage that would show us what he really fought like?

 

Gunboat Smith [1]
Billy Miske
Battling Levinsky
Carl Morris
Jess Willard [IN REAL TIME]
Jim Flynn 1918 [1]
Fred Fulton of course,where reporters raved about the viciousness and quick ko of Fulton.
This Dempsey under his new mgr Jack Kearns because of his tiger like attack set the boxing world on fire . Do you think the boxing fraternity and fans were brainwashed or so darn naive in those hard days when they were in awe of the young Dempsey ? I don't think so...The same boxing intelligentsia also held Sam Langford and Jack Johnson in high esteem
along with Dempsey....So why doesn't some posters assume that this Dempsey under Kearns at his peak, also assume that this young UNFILMED
Dempsey who flattened his victims pronto, was as good as the ringside reporters opinions who raved about him ?
P.S. His critics today say " Dempsey could be hit ". Though Gene Tunney
said " it was very difficult to hit Dempsey on the chin, for he always had his chin tucked in his shoulders". And Tunney knew his onions. Dempsey
as every swarmer was not as primitive as some posters make him out to be...But he went full blast from the gitgo, took some chances and took some shots, as the smaller Langford did , but his animal like speed and
vicious two handed punching,along with a kill or be killed toughness made
the young Dempsey a helluva a task to contend with for ANYONE....
Langford included....
P.S. Believe his peers. They were there...

 

good stuff burt :good i'm no dempsey fan and i've made that clear but if the only footage we had of tyson was past prime footage like williams, mathis jr or sheldon what would future generations think? fair is fair and dempsey cannot be judged TOO harshly based on the limited footage we have

 

N, when I judge fighters from the past, I ALWAYS consider when watching old films what age was the fighter on film I am watching...Any THOUGHTFUL fan before forming an opinion of a fighter from the past has to consider these factors...For Example we form an opinion of Jack Dempsey by and large from his bouts with Gene tunney, when Dempsey truly was "Dempsey" in name only. It bears repeating so I will repeat. Dempsey after a 3 year layoff when he went Hollywood, got hitched, fired his mgr Jack Kearns who Dempsey accused of stealing money, and both were engaged in law suits, took on Gene Tunney,razor sharp and with no tune-up fights, and Dempsey mourning his beloved brother Bernie, who
just committed suicide, killing his wife too...Along with this recipe of disaster Dempsey at 32 ,old and rusty lost his main ring asset, SPEED
of attack....So this is the Dempsey most fans have in mind when they judge him against other heavyweights H2H. Akin to years from now fans see only film of Ray Robinson against tiger Jones or Randy Turpin 1 in London. Or for that matter fans 100 years from now see only film available of Ali against Spinks or Holmes etc...Or on a personable note people today
watching the Beau Jack taking a beating from Ike williams in Philly in 1948
when Beau Jack was on the slide and way past his lightweight peak. I was there in Philly and remembered the Beau Jack of 5 years earlier...
So N, I believe Dempsey of his peak was what all the boxing writers and fighters who saw him and raved about him a helluva formidable force when he was the young Manassa Mauler...cheers...