More Impressive: Calzaghe - Kessler or Ward - Kessler?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by RJJFan, Feb 1, 2013.



  1. realsoulja

    realsoulja Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I think post the Eubank/Collins/Benn era, the SMW division got even weaker, hence why there were champions like:-

    Brewer, Mitchell, Siaca, Girad, Mundine, Ottke, Sartison, Lucas, Beyer, Sanavia, Hilton, Lacy. I don't think these lot would have been champs in todays era with the likes of Ward, Froch, Kessler, Bute being the top dogs.
     
  2. DOM5153

    DOM5153 They Cannot Run Forever Full Member

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    No what you are posting is subjective and your opinion, which is then backed up by a fact. Ive just stated a fact within a subjective post to back up said comment. I'll help you with this, firstly i will state the subjective part for you that incidently 95% of people will agree with "I believe Kessler to be past prime and faded at this point in his career". I will then back up this comment with a fact "I believe this because Kessler prior to the KO was knocked down by a fighter who has lost everytime he has stepped up". What you have posted may be based on a fact but it is also based on 50% of the information, this makes your post more opinion than fact as you have chosen specifically to ignore all the evidence as to appropriately suite your agenda. Analysing and evaluating information effectively is something we learn in key stage 3 school (between the ages of 11-14). This is clearly a skill that you either choose to ignore or have never learnt and the main reason why i can respect General Zod's opinion on the matter despite disagreeing with it but not your own. You approach an arguement on this matter not necessarily others like a Primary school child, until you show that you can look at the whole picture and not just part of it i just cant take your posts seriously on the matter.
     
  3. general zod

    general zod World Champion Full Member

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    No. The winner should be the guy who remained undefeated while facing a better overall level of comp, not the guy who just fought more nobodies.
    True

    I would describe him as a unorthodox counter-puncher, as I said before I don't rate that win because he took the fight on such short notice.
    No

    Lacy was a puncher( with limited boxing ability)
    Kessler is a counter-puncher

    True, which is why its such an amazing achievement to clear out your division.

    1: The Ring belt is not a legit belt.
    2: I'm only interested in comparing their smw resumes.
    3: The Hopkins win was a good win, but far from great. He was 43 yrs old and 2-2 in his last 4 fights. Those 2 losses being to a green contender, which really marked the end of Hopkins world class level days. He has shown he is good enough to beat limited punchers like Pavlik, but greatly struggles with opponents above that level like Dawson I, Dawson II, and Calzaghe.
    4: If you want to include Calzaghe lhw reign then you also have to factor in why Calzaghe refused to fight Erdei, Tarver or Dawson for a more recognized belt.
     
  4. general zod

    general zod World Champion Full Member

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    1: True
    The smw had some depth from around 93-96. After that era you just had a lot of weak belt holders.
    2:Not sure about Bute, but I can see Froch and Ward beating all of those guys you listed.
     
  5. dinovelvet

    dinovelvet Antifanboi Full Member

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    You have no idea what Kessler could go on to achieve. Sying Joe beat the best Kessler when he is still active, had his best win AFTER Ward is the definition of stupid. If he retired after Ward you might have a case but He is still active and still winning today against better fighters. You've been bested here , take defeat like a man and come back to fight another day.
     
  6. dinovelvet

    dinovelvet Antifanboi Full Member

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    King Arthur(underrated) would of knocked out half of those mopes.
     
  7. BlackBrenny

    BlackBrenny Guest



    :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
     
  8. DOM5153

    DOM5153 They Cannot Run Forever Full Member

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    :lol:No unfortunatley i didnt, afterall i cant look into the future. Ive already agreed that the Froch fight was indeed his best victory, if that same Kessler had been in the ring against Calzaghe, i would hetch a bet that Joe would have wound out a 12-0 victor on the cards, If kessler is struggling with seeing the punches coming he isnt getting out of the way of 100 slaps a round. His best performance was before Ward no matter what way you try to manipulate facts and opinion. Winning today against better fighters is your opinion, his calibre of opponents barring obviously Ward and Froch has stayed at a somewhat consistant level although i dont rate the likes of Green and Magee as highly as what Andrade and Beyer were at the times of Kessler's victory over them. As for being bested:lol:, i really dont think so, ive taken every piece of information available to form my opinion whereas you have taken convenient little snipets here and there to form a flawed opinion. Calzaghe is an unpopular fighter on these boards before even bringing America's flavour of the month Ward into the discussion. The fact that the poll still shows a result of 80% in favour of Joe speaks volumes of how conclusive this arguement is in favour of Calzaghe and in turn my arguement. I can safely say that it is you who should be taking defeat like a man, come back and fight another day on a different subject that you can form a better arguement on.:good
     
  9. dinovelvet

    dinovelvet Antifanboi Full Member

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    The poll is giving Joe more credit for the win because many see the Ward win as tainted over the butt that caused the tko.
    It has has nothing to do with my argument.
    kessler is prime now and its plain dumb to claim Joe beat the best Kessler when the biggest fight of his whole career is coming up next.
    Almost all fighters improve and develop with age and experience but to suit your agenda Kessler has went downhill after the age of 25 despite having the best win of his whole career at 29 against 2nd best in the world plus knocking out everybody who was put in front of him.
    The best version of Kessler is now , after Ward, not the young inexperienced version who had no notable wins.
    You cant say you beat the best version of somebody when they are still winning at top level.
    Take that to the bank Jooster and dont come back unless you want another schooling.
     
  10. jermainerambo

    jermainerambo Member Full Member

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    Joe calzaghe is the only person ever to beat mikkel kessler

    Technical decisions we don't count those:nono
     
  11. Axe

    Axe Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Calzaghe was the favourite and it was in his home country.

    Kessler had a broken hand GOING IN to the Calzaghe fight.

    Ward was more impressive IMO.
     
  12. MichiganWarrior

    MichiganWarrior Still Slick! Still Black! Full Member

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    American flavor of the month. :rofl:patsch Slappy joe fans:-(
     
  13. DOM5153

    DOM5153 They Cannot Run Forever Full Member

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    Another schooling:lol:, you dont seem able to even get Kessler age right, he was 28 when he lost to Calzaghe, 30 when he was defeated by Ward. He was 31 when he faced Froch. He will be 34 by the time he steps between the ropes to face Froch so please stop plucking figures from your arse. He is not prime so just quit with that arguement, he hasnt developed with age becuase he was already a fully grown man at 28 who still makes the weight as comfortably as he did 5 or 6 years ago. To say that he has developed accuracy is completely stupid given the eye injuries he had suffered prior to meeting Ward (which was then subsequently aggravated further by the headbutts). Please tell me why a clean victory over Kessler isnt as good as a dirty victory over Kessler, you have just admitted that the vast majority of people see the ward victory as tainted yet you choose to just paper over those crack like they are not there. Your arguement about his KO ratio is also flawed as Mikkel has never had any problem picking up stoppages, its not as if hes suddenly gone on a KO run like you seem to think. Your whole arguement over age is flawed to the point you cant even get the guys age correct or perhaps that is something you manipulated for your arguement. An injury prone mid 30's fighter with near 50 fights to his name and double vision to boot in the prime of his life:patsch. I'd suggest you lay off the crack and then learn how to count before replying to my comment, that way you wont look like a complete Idiot.
     
  14. DOM5153

    DOM5153 They Cannot Run Forever Full Member

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    Ironic that i dont even like Calzaghe, i honestly couldnt care less.:smoke
     
  15. dinovelvet

    dinovelvet Antifanboi Full Member

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    Being a few years older makes no difference whatsoever and shows you're just nitpicking now because you got nothing else to go on.
    Its been clear and well documented to anybody who follows his career that he has made improvements in power and accuracy.
    That debunks the ridiculous "double vision" excuse , although you'd have to be an authentic moron to believe that in the first place.
    Green was knocked out cold for the first time in his career. That fight was at LHW , so his improvements in power cannot be disputed.
    His win over Froch is undeniable proof that his best days came after the loss to Joe.
    Give it up boy, you're arguing against logical facts.