It's irrelevant what he weighed for the Forbes fight. He rehydrated properly. Against Manny he went to 145, but only rehydrated 2 pounds. There's nothing to debate. The facts speak for themselves. For every fight Oscar ever had, he rehydrated and put on 7-14 pounds. That was every fight! When was the last time Oscar weighed 147 on fight night? It was probably in the mid 90's when he boxed at 135 and 140. His body was depleted against Manny. If you can't see that, you've got problems.
Nacho was happy with the camp and so was Oscar. He said he was capable of running a comfortable ten miles. Angelo Dundee was also happy. But he ended up cutting that much weight, his stomach shrunk and he couldn't replenish properly. Like I said in my previous post, everybody including Nacho and Roach expected him to rehydrate between 10-15 pounds. They were shocked when it was 2. Do some research. Oscar had 45 fights. In 44 of them he rehydrated between 7-14 pounds for every fight. Look into it. Oscar takes full responsibility. He thought he could make 147 comfortably, and rehydrate healthily. He was wrong. I think Manny would have caused him major problems regardless, but at the end of the day, Oscar's body was depleted. If you do some research, you'll see for yourself. It's a fact not an opinion. He'd gone down to a weight he hadn't been at for nearly a decade, and instead of rehydrating to 10 pounds plus, he only rehydrated to 2. It's as simple as that.
Nacho didnt have to come out and say that Oscar was drained or depleted because De La Hoya said it himself, http://www.secondsout.com/columns/thomas-hauser/de-la-hoya-pacquiao-and-the-business-of-boxing "I was drained by the weight. It was that damn oyster I ate on Friday night." -Oscar De La Hoya blaming his loss on an oyster seems to be a lot more "bull****" than rehydration and IV rumors.
It's not that Nacho did NOT come out and say anything......he DID say something that completely contradicted Oscar's excuse. And Nacho addressed the rumors that DLH was drained right away and DLH didn't come out and say anything until more than a year later. Nacho made no excuses and revealed DLH was in great shape....but the speed was just too much for them to overcome. A lot of fighters make excuses. ......Josh blamed his loss to Pac on bad fish his chef made him the night before their fight, so I'm never surprised these elite level athletes come up some excuse for a bad performance. It's a pride thing.
Maybe....maybe not. If every fighter who lost and had an excuse lined up that were always true. ....I might be inclined to believe it. But we all know that aint the case.
actually, it was less than two weeks post fight that dlh made the oyster excuse and not a year later. http://forum.philboxing.com/viewtopic.php?f=98&t=119359 http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=6129&cat=boxer i dont ever remembering oscar coming up with too many excuses when he lost a fight most notably when he looked very much out of shape against sturm. http://chronicle.augusta.com/stories/2004/06/07/oth_418195.shtml imo, oscar as a fighter was pretty much a straight-up guy(sans the questionabe hopkins bodyshot). as a promoter...not so much.
Research? That's for those who don't know and are looking to learn. I know this sport very well and this particular subject I'm knowledgeable about to be able converse with anyone at a detailed level. If you didn't have the opportunity to read my other posts, you should. If you did then you would know that I discussed the topic of cutting weight.....the effects of ballooning up in between fights as well as the effects of keeping weight down during those times. I'm a big DLH fan. I've followed his career from the amateurs to his last fight with Manny. I'm aware of his strengths and his weaknesses. ......I'm also able to distinguish his stylistic tweaks as his career moved him up through multiple divisions which introduced a "who's who" of legendary boxing trainers. So I more than able to speak intelligently on Oscar's troubles with weight during the down times and the amount of weight he has been known to put on post weigh in. I'm aware that wasn't the best version of Oscar.....I'm not delusional. I just don't buy all the conspiracy bull**** about secret clauses and mysterious IV needles that were supposedly seen by Roach but by no one else. DLH at that point and even before the fight with Floyd.....Oscar was a part time fighter....losing his dedication abd focus due to the amount of fame and success that he enjoyed. I've always said a prime 147 DLH beats Manny......and Floyd for that matter. But its not like Oscar was a corpse in some boxing gloves that they fed to Manny. DLH was confident and cocky assuming a definitive win and wasn't mentally prepared to be at that big of a disadvantage against this little guy whom everyone expected him to plow through. DLH gave up after round 3 because he simply had no answers for the speed...was beginning to get busted up and was mentally defeated. Pac deserves more credit than many give him for this fight. But that's to be expected. All great fighters get a fair amount of unfair criticism. It comes with the territory.
I'm talking about the candid conversation he was having with Vic Ortiz where he finally spoke on the fight with Pac and claimed he had peaked too soon, over trained and came into the fight drained. He didn't mention anything about bad oysters in that version of why he lost to Manny. Oscar is notorious for having an excuse ready or blaming his trainer(s) for loses or bad performances. And DLH is my dude. He admitted he got a gift against Felix at middle weight only years after he was given the questionable decision. He did say after the fight he did feel he won but admitted having a flat camp or not being in the best if shape. He made sure he spoke on being more prepared for Bhop in the same post fight interview becuase he knew that it wasn't a great performance. I think DLH was more active and landed more but Felix walked through everything and began talking over in the later rounds. DLH wanted the MW WBO title before fighting Nard to make it an even bigger event.
This is getting ridiculous. I've just read your post, and I agree with nearly all of it. Once again, I think Manny could have beaten him at that stage of his career anyway. But how can you not think that Oscar was ill when YOU KNOW he only rehydrated 2 pounds?? He didn't make the decision to only rehydrate by 2 pounds. It wasn't intentional. It wasn't part of some master plan. You say you've watched all of his career like I have? If so, you would know that for 44 of his 45 fights across all of the weight divisions he's fought in, he rehydrated between 7-14 pounds after every fight. Against Manny, he'd cut that much weight, he couldn't replenish his body properly. Now kindly explain how a fighter who went into camp over 160, who was approaching 36, who hadn't fought at welter for 8 years, could only rehydrate by 2 pounds a day and a half after the weigh in? How come he rehydrated between 7-14 pounds for EVERY OTHER fight? How come Freddie Roach, Angelo Dundee and Nacho Bernstein assumed he'd put on between 10-15 pounds? Freddie said in an interview "he normally puts on around 10 pounds at 154, so with the extra weight he's going down to, we're looking at maybe 10-15 pounds." If you don't think he was ill, then explain how everything happened. The last time Oscar weighed 147 on fight night, is when he was campaigning at 135-140 in the mid 90's. Like I said previously, Oscar takes full responsibility. There is no conspiracy theory. He said he thought he could make the weight, and camp was great and everyone was happy. Nacho, Angelo and everyone was happy until after the weigh in, when it became apparent that something was drastically wrong and he couldn't replenish his body. You have no argument. At 154 he rehydrated by 10 pounds, but at 145 he could only get to 2? A guy who trained him and got close to him expected him to weigh 157-162, yet he came in at 147?? You rehydrate naturally after the weigh in. You don't say "I'm only going to put 2 pounds on etc" He was dead at the weight. It's as simple as that.
It's really not hard to understand why DLH's weight gain, post fight changed. DLH was MORE active than he had ever been in a LONG time going into the fight with Manny. DLH was use to fighting once a year.....he was like the SUPERBOWL of boxing who would put on a big PPV event 1 time, every calendar year......So even with the fact that he had doubled his activity addresses "PART" of what contributed to his over all weight and how his body reacted to cutting and rehydrating. But besides all of that....DLH introduced a more scientific approach to his preparations for Manny. He knew he would have to go down a few more pounds (Which he was ALREADY planning to do) and in order to do so he wanted to make sure he cut weight the RIGHT way. Which is basically a lifestyle approach. Controlling your weight outside of camp, incorporating a strength and conditioning coach....hiring a nutritionist and even a chef....all working together for one outcome....Which was to make sure that DLH's body cut weight the healthiest way possible to optimize his performance at his advanced age for a boxer. The body is a very complicated system but it does react similar across the board when put through the rigors of what boxers go through when they are in camp and out of camp for a fight. You look at Nard....you look and PAC and you see Floyd......who's weights NEVER fluctuate too much after weigh in. They keep their weight under control...they live a healthy lifestyle and their body responds accordingly. They don't have problems with stamina...they don't have problems making weight (they are typically under the division limit) and don't balloon up when they are not fighting. DLH's body and physiological make up for the PAC fight was different because of how he approach his career during that stage of his career. There's always been a problem for the smaller fighters in cutting weight because for the most part they did NOT cut weight the proper weight. I'd say my argument is air tight. Sure.....I'm accepting that DLH could have really been sick because of some bad sea food....or he over trained...or he was dehydrated.....but DLH got his weight down long before weigh in and was keeping his weight down below the welter weight limit the last few weeks of camp. Everyone was surprised at the outcome...No one expected to witness DLH get destroyed and for Oscar it was a very big pill to swallow. Losing or bad performances prompt a similar reaction by these elite level athletes because their PRIDE is so big.
I'll bite. You should look at the things that we know were in play: -There was an established per pound penalty for Oscar coming in overweight, which was reported to be $2-3M per pound over 147. -Manny is on record about being puzzled by his low official weight. -Freddie is on record stating that he thought the scale being "calibrated" was how Pacquiao appeared to be so light. -Roach is on record stating that he saw IV marks in DLH's arm once they were in the ring. -Heavier fighters struggling to make weight don't typically overshoot their cut and come in way under the limit. They are expected to just hit the number on the scales and then immediately begin rehydration. On the other hand, a smaller fighter who has no trouble making weight isn't going to subject himself to a harsh cut. What does all this tell you? DLH never made weight and tampered with the scales. Unfortunately, the weights were so unbelievable, they drew a lot of well warranted suspicion. In order to avoid any confrontation about the official weights and the huge financial penalty, Oscar chose not to rehydrate and kept cutting overnight in order to get a low HBO unofficial weight. After the weight was taken on Saturday, DLH's team began emergency IV hydration. Oscar was indeed dead at the weight, but not because he damaged himself during training camp. His sorry condition was due to the drastic measures his team took that weekend to avoid paying a minimum of $6M in penalties for failing to make the contracted 147.
Nuff with the speech of respect. I'd bet you didn't care about who Pacquiao was till he got linked to Mayweather. What you knew about Pacquiao is irrelevent. LOL
