Rate your heavyweights on a pound-for-pound basis, too

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Manassa, Apr 6, 2013.


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  1. Manassa

    Manassa - banned

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    We know Dempsey would be creamed by either Klitschko.

    And why would he be expected to win? Does the heavyweight division grant men of a certain minimum size the prowess to hang with anyone? The durability to withstand and the power to fell any behemoth of masses one hundred and thirty percent (and upwards) of the smaller man? No.

    We document and debate the trials of boxers moving just four pounds in the lower classes and how they find their punches ineffectual against larger, stronger foes, yet we have not the clarity to see that, although size certainly matters less as you move up the scale, a weight disparity in excess of fifty pounds should be a 'given.' A non-argument. A comparable Pep versus Calzaghe, or discussion on whether a fine knife is better for chopping wood than an axe.

    I know many people no longer subscribe to this strange concept, but many still do, and in fact it was a certain post that inspired me to write this brief clarification. Most of us seem to rate heavyweights fairly, as though we acknowledge the division's label as unlimited and recognise that boxing greatness is all about what you can do for your size and circumstance, which is why many of us are obsessed by pound-for-pound lists. It all unravels in the top division, confused we are by a simple name tag.
     
    Manassa, Apr 6, 2013
    Manassa, Apr 6, 2013
    #1
  2. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace

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    well as it stands my top ten is roughly

    ali
    louis
    lewis
    marciano
    holyfield
    tyson
    foreman
    liston
    frazier
    holmes

    i'm not sure that changes much at all.
     
    lufcrazy, Apr 6, 2013
    lufcrazy, Apr 6, 2013
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  3. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace

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    however if i was to go through my p4p top whatever and list the heavyweights from there it opens up a whole different can of worms
     
    lufcrazy, Apr 6, 2013
    lufcrazy, Apr 6, 2013
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  4. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace

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    something like

    langford
    fitzsimmons
    charles
    moore
    ali
    louis
    tunney
    holyfield
    tyson
    marciano
     
    lufcrazy, Apr 6, 2013
    lufcrazy, Apr 6, 2013
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  5. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace

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    well it comes down to wether you consider wladimir as lineal or not :lol:
     
    lufcrazy, Apr 6, 2013
    lufcrazy, Apr 6, 2013
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  6. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace

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    the way i see it, either wlad is world champion, or grachev is world champion, certainly not both and certainly not neither.

    i might try to co-exist in two parallel worlds were in one grachev is champ and in the other wlad is champ.

    i see no other way around this quandry.
     
    lufcrazy, Apr 6, 2013
    lufcrazy, Apr 6, 2013
    #6
  7. MadcapMaxie

    MadcapMaxie Guest

    Looking at P4P in a H2H sense is difficult to guage because you can't account for how things would be effected. If Ali was Charles' size would he be considerably less durable or much faster? I'd assume yes, but the extent of which becomes difficult to speculate. Or on the flipside say if Patterson was Ali's size would he suddenly be able to withstand Liston's bomb?

    Anywho, throwing out a rough list it would something like this, in no particular order:

    Charles
    Marciano
    Tunney
    Ali
    Moore

    (This is P4P/H2H)
     
    MadcapMaxie, Apr 6, 2013
    MadcapMaxie, Apr 6, 2013
    #7
  8. MadcapMaxie

    MadcapMaxie Guest

    Walcott would probably be top 10, his pre title run is chock-a-block.
     
    MadcapMaxie, Apr 6, 2013
    MadcapMaxie, Apr 6, 2013
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  9. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace

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    i don't think i rate walcott higher p4p than tunney, rocky, dempsey, holyfield, tyson or lewis
     
    lufcrazy, Apr 6, 2013
    lufcrazy, Apr 6, 2013
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  10. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace

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    this is the correct answer
     
    lufcrazy, Apr 6, 2013
    lufcrazy, Apr 6, 2013
    #10
  11. Manassa

    Manassa - banned

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    Why people equate pound-for-pound to making fighters larger or smaller is beyond me. This is not what I was on about in the slightest.

    Pound-for-pound, to me, means how good someone was for their weight class. That's it. I rate Napoles above Hagler not because I imagine them both the same size (ridiculous) and Napoles winning, but because I believe he accomplished a bit more around his weight and was slightly (very slightly) better overall in comparison to his division historically.
     
    Manassa, Apr 6, 2013
    Manassa, Apr 6, 2013
    #11
  12. dyna

    dyna Boxing Junkie banned

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    Patterson would be a p4p hw king too.
    The guy was as big as Carl Froch is.
     
    dyna, Apr 6, 2013
    dyna, Apr 6, 2013
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  13. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace

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    i applaud from my iphone. this is a cracking post, spot on :good
     
    lufcrazy, Apr 6, 2013
    lufcrazy, Apr 6, 2013
    #13
  14. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace

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    probably post of the century.

    i am in your service luf
     
    lufcrazy, Apr 6, 2013
    lufcrazy, Apr 6, 2013
    #14
  15. MadcapMaxie

    MadcapMaxie Guest

    Pound for Pound, I thought anyway, was intended to compare a fighters greatness across weight classes. Basically what you are saying above. I thought people rate Heavyweights in a P4P sense anyway, otherwise there would be no way Marciano could be top 10 let alone top 5, like he is for me and others. I rate Heavyweights primarily based upon who they fought and beat relative to their time period, in Marciano's time the best weighed under 200lbs so I'm not going to penalise him (unless we're talking H2H) because he never beat a good legitimate heavyweight.
     
    MadcapMaxie, Apr 6, 2013
    MadcapMaxie, Apr 6, 2013
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