Frank Shamrock v Wanderlei Silva @ UFC 25 Poll Added

Discussion in 'MMA Forum' started by Stoo, Aug 4, 2011.


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  1. MetalMandible

    MetalMandible Chinchecker Full Member

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    The point is that he couldn't take good wrestlers down. His catch wrestling was superb but catch is not about takedowns or else Barnett would be the god of takedowns.

    Yes, it does. Good wrestlers also have good takedown defense and Shamrock had neither. Sick on the mat but definitely not elite in taking fights there.


    Wanderlei has never been submitted and regardless of the five year difference it wouldn't matter. Yes, Wanderlei was better off of his back when he faced Arona but Arona was a far better grappler than Shamrock could have ever been so I'd say it evens out. If more seasoned Wanderlei survived Arona then Wanderlei who was only three years away from nearly tapping Sakuraba could have survived a MWs onslaught.

    Fantasy match-ups are incredibly frustrating because there will never be that "aha!" moment where one of us is proven right, so I'm going to bow out, but I leave you with this. Quit overrating pioneer fighters. Shamrock is an important historical figure in MMA but he was the first fighter to really push cross-training and there is absolutely no way that a guy who was on the edge of figuring out what worked and what didn't was going to beat Wanderlei Silva when he wasn't even able to decisively beat Bas Rutten.
     
    MetalMandible, Aug 4, 2011
    MetalMandible, Aug 4, 2011
    #16
  2. Stoo

    Stoo Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    NO! the point is, whether or not Shamrocks wrestling is elite or not, it's still more than adequate to take Wanderlei down. Shooting doubles or singles wasnt Frank's strength that is correct, but I highly doubt Wanderlei could defend one from Frank if he choose to shoot, especially in 2000
    You are also ignoring that Frank was a pretty lean 199lbs in the Tito fight and Tito always had the ability to cut a **** load of weigh too.

    It doesnt really even out as I think the difference in styles on the matt between Ricardo and Frank is like comparing Anderson's stand up to Robbie Lawler. Both can **** you up, but Frank is more fluid, energetic and unpredictable than Arona's which is based on strength and can be described as workman like. Give me an example of Arona sweeping and switching sub attempts like Prime Frank did then it would be a valid comparison in terms of styles.

    And in the year 2000 Wanderlei was completely nullified by Tito's top game, and in the early going by the guard of Dan Henderson. Maybe Frank would not submitt him, but he can also pack a mean punch on the ground aswell, so he has plenty of options in this one

    Yes I agree we will never come to a conclusion about fantasy match up's once we have both decided to make up our minds so Im happy to agree to disagree.

    But Im not overrating a pioneer fighter and this comment is an attempt to make it seem as Im viewing a fighter through rose tinted specs and is a pretty poor attempt to dismiss my opinion as biased. As I said, this is a match up as too how both fighters would have faired in 2000 and has circumstances been different they would have faced each other. I think at that time Frank has the edge, nothing more to it

    And not getting your ass kicked by Bas Rutten is a positive in my book :hi:
     
    Stoo, Aug 4, 2011
    Stoo, Aug 4, 2011
    #17
  3. Stoo

    Stoo Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    Bump

    Frank is getting more votes than I thought
     
    Stoo, Aug 5, 2011
    Stoo, Aug 5, 2011
    #18
  4. Beouche

    Beouche Juan Manuel Marquez Full Member

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    He got my vote. Good fight when the votes are so even
     
    Beouche, Aug 5, 2011
    Beouche, Aug 5, 2011
    #19
  5. timmyjames

    timmyjames PTurd curb stomper Full Member

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    stick to chin checking because you are an absolute idiot
     
    timmyjames, Aug 5, 2011
    timmyjames, Aug 5, 2011
    #20
  6. Ai-edy2007

    Ai-edy2007 STOCKTON 209 MOTHER****ER Full Member

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    wandy by tko knees.
     
    Ai-edy2007, Aug 5, 2011
    Ai-edy2007, Aug 5, 2011
    #21
  7. Stoo

    Stoo Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    Dont you think he'd be susceptible to the takedown whilst throwing knees, like in the Tito and Henderson fight for example?
     
    Stoo, Aug 5, 2011
    Stoo, Aug 5, 2011
    #22
  8. Will Cooling

    Will Cooling Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Shamrock by rope-a-dope. Shamrock for his time was awesome.
     
    Will Cooling, Aug 5, 2011
    Will Cooling, Aug 5, 2011
    #23
  9. Stoo

    Stoo Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    BUMP!
    any thoughts?
    where is Will?
     
    Stoo, Feb 2, 2013
    Stoo, Feb 2, 2013
    #24
  10. Stoo

    Stoo Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    Bump!
     
    Stoo, Apr 5, 2013
    Stoo, Apr 5, 2013
    #25
  11. Bill Butcher

    Bill Butcher Erik`El Terrible`Morales Full Member

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    Got to go with Frank in that time frame, he was probably the best p4p fighter in MMA (outside of or next to Sakuraba) then, it really could have went either way though as Wanderlei was a ****ing machine himself, slight edge to Frank though.
     
    Bill Butcher, Apr 8, 2013
    Bill Butcher, Apr 8, 2013
    #26
  12. uberstar

    uberstar Guest

    at 200? Wand stomps him into the ground.
     
    uberstar, Apr 8, 2013
    uberstar, Apr 8, 2013
    #27
  13. Malcolm

    Malcolm Active Member Full Member

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    Don't forget Frank is a natural middleweight whereas Wand seems more like in between MW and HW. Frank's heaviest was 193, the 199 against Tito was fully clothed.
     
    Malcolm, Apr 9, 2013
    Malcolm, Apr 9, 2013
    #28
  14. rekcutnevets

    rekcutnevets Black Sash Full Member

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    De la Hoya Avatars :-(
     
    rekcutnevets, Apr 9, 2013
    rekcutnevets, Apr 9, 2013
    #29
  15. rekcutnevets

    rekcutnevets Black Sash Full Member

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    This is an awesome match-up, stoo! I don't think I've seen this thread before now. I enjoyed the back and forth with mandible, even though he seemed to be making a prime vs prime argument.
     
    rekcutnevets, Apr 9, 2013
    rekcutnevets, Apr 9, 2013
    #30
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