Will Hatton Promotions ever dig deep?

Hatton definitely needed a kick up the arse, but a total severing of ties was still harsh. Hatton left question marks over his ability to effectively promote like the established order so nobody is saying he should've had a contract. But a total slamming of the door on any dates, even on an ad hoc basis, is counterproductive. Certainly the knockback from Sky was seen as a way of putting him out of business and his top fighters hopefully migrating towards Hearn. Ricky made his money and is financially secure so I'm not bothered about him, but to see the way somebody like Buckland is now stagnating is a bit sickening. For somebody like him who is a decent fighter but not a Lee Selby-like talent, then unless he can get on Hearn's books the only option seems to be a move sideways from Hatton right now.

If Sky want to hand out a contract to Hearn then that's their prerogative but totally shutting the door to other promoters' hopes of earning a tv date is throttling the life out of the careers of very good fighters. Hatton Promotions may have fallen by the wayside in any case, but more naturally. Of course Sky are under no obligations to anybody but themselves, but by trying to totally snuff out the opposition they are also limiting the competition that would help to keep Hearn on his toes.

 

Yeah, this. BoxNation is great for international fights but that's because they're incredibly cheap to purchase the rights for. The average amount for a major world title card internationally is a four figure number, so it's really not a lot of money to purchase international fights. There are other costs, of course, but the events are cheap for BoxNation to show.

What isn't cheap, however, are UK based shows where the promoter has to cover all the costs. The arena hire, policing, the MC, all the backstage staff, the lighting and sound...everything has to be covered by the promoters and the simple fact is, they can't get enough money from ticket sales or TV subscribers to fund it.

BoxNation works as a channel which shows international fights for hardcore fans but it isn't a basis for a UK promoter. It's just not got the exposure for it to be a success in marketing British fighters.

 

You have to look at this from Skys point of view. For every single sport they carry, they have a long term deal for a set amount of dates/programming. They don't deal with anybody they don't have a contract with. Usually they only deal with one company for each sport.

The idea you have about empty dates is good in theory but its a nightmare for Sky to actually implement. The slamming of the door was counter productive for Hatton Promotions, but not for Sky Sports. Boxing doesn't bring enought to the table for it to be given special privileges.

 

But expensive domestic shows I understand but if you are going to run shows anyway doesn't it make more economic sense to make a loss and gain exposure and future chances for your fighters rather than taking a loss and stagnating

I think Ricky hoped his comeback would be 3 fights in
Which time his boys got out and showcased for a tv deal down the line

 

The slamming of the door on all other promoters will be counterproductive in the long run for Sky Sports though. And as far as boxing goes they have never before dealt with one promoter at the total exclusion of all others. That's what makes Hearn's position right now so unique.

Where the sport sits in the evolving sports rights market place will require greater flexibility in terms of contracts. That won't happen at Sky anytime soon while Barney Francis is the Managing Director of Sky Sports though. Feel a bit sorry for Adam Smith when his boss is very much anti-boxing and has described it as a 'headache'. He has come through the ranks mainly producing cricket and football and likes the certainty involved in such sports. That's why this eggs-in-one-basket approach with Matchroom appealed to him so much. He sees it as way of dealing with a sport he dislikes and mistrusts with less hassle.

 

I usually like your posts and your logic wins me over allot of the time. But I think your letting your heart rule your heard here.

Barney Francis is a boxing fan according to anyone that's actually dealt with him. Hearn, Frank W etc.

 

Hatton Promotions were making a loss when they had a TV deal. There comes a point where the money runs out.

 

One of the reasons W*rren left Sky was because Francis was becoming awkward to deal with in constantly banging on that boxing needed to get its house in order. When I say Francis is anti-boxing I mean from a business perspective - he likes certainty and you'll never get that in boxing. Francis has been top man at Sky Sports since 2009 and since then boxing has had a rough ride. Hearn would obviously say that Francis is a boxing man, but W*rren has no time for him. The Haye ppvs were a killer for Francis. And I have no favouritism for any of them. Incidentally, here's a W*rren column from around that time:

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...**-insists-boxing-has-its-house-in-order.html

 

Is a bitter Frank really the only thing your going on here? Frank left Sky because they wouldn't give him PPV dates and were insisting on a higher quality for regular Saturday night shows. In that same article Frank says “Obviously Barney Francis is a fan of boxing" and also I remember Frank talking about how they would regularly go for breakfast together and bigging him up for putting boxing back on Saturday Nights and bring back ringside. As soon as Frank leaves Sky he starts slagging him off. Also ironic that Frank is disregarding fights from the US and is pushing domestic fights as being whats important!

Why wouldn't the head of a network expect certainty from programming, especially when allot of money is invested into advertising the events.

Frank mentions injury's, but Ricky Burns v Miguel Vasquez wasn't the only time Frank announced fights without contracts being signed and Francis was aware of that.

The relationship between Sky & a Boxing promoter needs to work both ways. There can't be any hand holding. Sky pay $XXX,XXX.XX for a show and it needs to deliver entertainment. Its pretty simple.

 

Actaully W*rren isn't quoted as saying “Obviously Barney Francis is a fan of boxing" anywhere in that article. And a bitter Frank isn't all that I'm going on; that article is just illustrates W*rren v Francis. W*rren didn't particularly get on with him when he was still with Sky; Francis has only been boss since 2009 and had nothing to do with boxing until then. And of course W*rren is going to big up anyone he's trying to get something out of, just like Edward is doing now. Francis is an awkward customer for boxing and the sport would be better off if he wasn't the man dictating things at Sky Sports because he has a skewed take on 'value' in a boxing sense. And that isn't intended as a defence of W*rren or any other promoter.

 

The full interview with Frank that you can find on boxing scene has that quote.

I think your letting your heart rule your head here. There is no logic to having open dates for promoters to fill from the perspective of Sky Sports.

They have had exclusive the deal with Matchroom for less than one year and they already have a better stable than every other British promoter put together.

 

Sorry hadn't seen the extended thing. Not referring to open dates exactly but some input in terms of what goes on to our Sky screens from other promoter(s) would actually help Hearn out. And not in the present way in which they have to go through Matchroom itself. Matchroom have a good stable yes and hopefully it goes from strength to strength, but they can't sign absolutely everybody up and there are too many fighters with other promoters not fighting. Of course Sky don't have an obligation to safeguard the sport as a whole, especially in this economic climate. So what is really needed from a boxing standpoint right now is a competitor who can realistically compete with Sky. Therefore, if BT do follow through with getting involved in boxing it may ease concerns for the sport in a wider context with regard to an unhealthy Matchroom monopoly.

 

Hattons were spending ludicrous money at the start on production of their fights. As well as all the Hatton TV stuff, the rig they had above the ring on their early pro fights, which looked great, cost 4x as much as one that any other promoter's used. I see what they were doing in a way - trying to give UFC-type production values - and with money going as a tax right-off it wasn't such a concern early on - though they were probably losing 40k a show. This maybe cost all divisions of company when bean counters got involved though.

Gareth Williams was useless in his role as ceo of company (I spoke to Matthew Hatton's friends at one fight where they said they hated him and Brodie threatened to knock him out when he patronised him). Not that Hatton should ever be anything but grateful over the crazy terms he got from Sky for Mayweather PPV.

I'm not sure having a safety-first matchmaker in Richard Poxon helped them either. With the odd exception - most notably Rhodes-Moore - they just did not put on good enough cards.

Buckland was particularly mis-used. A guy like Quigg was worth them going carefully with, Buckland had a low ceiling, wouldn't sell tickets but he would improve every card they did and could have become a cult Sky viewer hit - especially after prizefighter. He would fight every week if he could and to not see the value in him and utilise the value he would add to any card is mind-boggling.

Lastly, they're not going to go with BoxNation unless they get offer to largely fund their cards - which won't happen (Probably only one who would without this is Coldwell and not sure him and Frank have ever made up over him going with Haymaker back in the day). Frank doesnt want to lose 20k putting on his own shows so why would he do it putting on Hattons'?

 

I feel for Ricky, he plunged a lot of money into his promotional company. He was putting on decent cards on Sky. Why didn't Sky just cut the amount of dates Rick had? So he could still show Quigg, Buckland etc.

Can't believe he hasn't got a deal with Boxnation. Frank just isn't interested in domestic shows anymore.