Duran was a great welterweight -- but not near as special as Ali was at heavyweight. It is at lightweight where he shines brightest. To be blunt -- there has never been a lightweight as tall a task as what a welterweight Ray Leonard brings to the table.
Maybe true, but it's also where he fought his least spectacular set of opponents, which makes it somewhat difficult to properly gauge his abilities there IMO. I wouldn't be so sure of that - he isn't the only LW champ who beat a great or ATG WW champ. Ike Williams holds a win over Kid Gavilan (and reportedly lost a close fight in the rematch), Benny Leonard twice beat Jack Britton, and Henry Armstrong toppled the long reign of Barney Ross. On the flipside, how many other greats in and around LW-WW would've just quit in the manner that Duran did in the rematch?
The problem with this comparison is that Lennox was also great in addition to being big, whereas Barkley almost verged on being a journeyman outside of having Hearns' number. Although Duran showed he could compete with bigger men, he did lose to the great ones, i.e.: Hearns, Hagler. And even when he fought a great fighter of comparable natural size like Benitez, he still could be beaten.
That's true but at the same time Duran was giving away 3+ inches in height and range to Leonard. If Ali had a 3 inch height advantage then Duran would have a lot of trouble getting catching him and getting inside. At the same time Ali would have trouble hitting Duran with clean shots as well. The same problems Ray Leonard had connecting. I believe if you matched Duran and Ali at the same size, height etc. Ali would have a nightmare in front of him. A guy he coudnt keep off him.
I'm tempted to say none. Yet I think it was an isolated incident. Not related to a peak-for-peak discussion. But disgraceful -- I think only Duran knows how little he had left in the tank in that match. It would have been an ugly beating, but to walk away, I don't think he realized the can of worms he opened.
all the excuses for Duran because he is not greater than Ali doesn't make him greater. He still had to beat the legends, not just have an excuse for why he lost to them. Sure if Duran were Ali's size he might be trouble. but Ray fought Duran and was at his size and Ray beat him easily. I suspect Ali would have found a way to win. Ali proved more against different styles that he could overcome them more than Duran. One post tried to say Duran lost because Ray had a longer reach, but to say all fighters who had longer reaches won every fight in history is obviously not true. Hagler did not match Hearns reach and neither did Barkley or Leonard, If Duran wanted to match Ali, he had to beat Hearns, Leonard in the rematch and Benitez. And he didn't come close. Now if you want to say did Ali fight better guys than Duran? No. Duran's resume with Cuevas,Hearns,Benitez,Leonard,Hagler,Barkley and all the others etc were just as good and complete with top fighters, but beating the top guys he did not do. How can he compare to Ali in greatness. Just isn't there. Isn't there for him to be greater than Leonard either. Forget who beat Duran, the question is who did he beat to match Ali?
I wonder why then, all the oldtimers who saw them, pick Duran over Leonard, hagler and Hearns in pfp alltime lists? funny eh? but what do they know. Obviously you mags know better with your wealth of boxing knowledge and experience
MAG has never made a post on more than two or three topics. Never listens to anyone else's opinion (his views are set in stone), and says the exact same thing (just in different ways) every single time he posts on one of said few topics, regardless of whatever points have been brought up. He's genuinely one of the worst posters in the Classic forum and has been for years.
that baffles me also since Duran's lightweight competition was not that great to give him a big advantage. What fighters give Duran the edge over Ali in greatness?
I guess I can say no thank you. Usually the places I post has you posting at the same time with contrary views, so maybe you have a glimpse of how you post. If you see my comments on Duran you can see that I do not change, and I give him credit if they compare him to Mattysse like some posters have done in general forum. But when you compare him to Ali or any great, the criteria is what opposition did he beat, and Duran gets credit for a great career minus beat the greats. This has always been my view. I am not sure how many different ways or in what word combinations I can say this. Unless someone pulls an Arguello or Pryor win out of his resume, I don't think Duran has as many great wins as say Leonard. I mean he has one great win. His next great win is Cuevas. He is actually the greatest win for two fighters Benitez and Hearns.
MAG is one of the best posters out here even if he bashed my man FloydG!! I always thought the opposite of him. He brings facts and sticks to the issues and never gets mad!!!
