Sonny Liston vs Lennox Lewis

I wouldn't call Vitali, Rahman, or McCall "huge punchers." Briggs took Vitali's shots better than Lewis, whose legs were buckling all over the ring in their fight.

 

Moreso than Lewis proved his chin against Bruno, Briggs, or Vitaly? All of them were big punchers of even greater size than Williams, and they all scored solid punches on Lewis. Mercer was also a solid puncher (though perhaps not a one-shot KO artist at the world class level), and Lewis stood up under his punches in a 10-round battle.

Liston did show a sound chin against Williams, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it "iron" based on those fights - he was visibly staggered and in some trouble in the 2nd round of the rematch. While Williams could certainly hit, most fighters at the elite level were able to survive his punches and at least last the distance.

 

The same could be said of Lewis against 6'7", 250-pound Vitali, but he managed to not only withstand his punches but even pull the fight out.

Do you also feel that Lewis' KO by 240-pound Rahman shouldn't be held against him either, given that he was also overweight and gassed in that fight?

 

The biggest problem I have with most posters is Lewis gets the damn if you do damned if you don't approach. He was wobbled several times, that's a negative, he went down twice and never got up, and that's also a negative. But, what about the fights with Vitali and Briggs, where he was virtually walking through their punches and didn't go down. He gets absolutely zero credit for that. And that's where I have a problem with this whole line of reasoning.

 

Lewis wasn't gassed when he was badly rocked by Vitali's right hand in the 2nd round. Vitali, despite his size, isn't a puncher. He was unable stop Shannon Briggs despite battering him for 12 rounds.

I don't think Lewis was gassed out when Rahman knocked him out.

 

Vitali and Briggs both badly hurt Lewis. Lewis might not have a glass jaw, but I wouldn't exactly say he had a good chin either.

 

Maybe not, but he was gassed in the 4th, 5th, and 6th rounds when he also withstood some solid punches from Vitali.

And I'd say he was no more rocked in that 2nd round than Liston had been against Ali or Williams.

You keep pointing to this one single fight to illustrate Vitali's supposed lack of power, even though it was universally criticized for being allowed to go on far too long. This would be like claiming Liston wasn't a big puncher because he could never stop Bert Whitehurst, or Williams wasn't a big puncher because he could never stop Frankie Daniels. Besides Vitali was almost 40 years old at the time of the Briggs fight.

In his next fight after Lewis, Vitaly blasted out Kirk Johnson in just 2 rounds, who was never stopped otherwise in his career.

 

Liston was rocked by Ali and Williams but recovered almost immediately, Lewis' legs were still rubbery 2 1/2 minutes later going into the 3rd round.

Liston's fights against Whitehurst aren't comparable to Vitali's fight with Briggs because he wasn't landing at will against Whiteburst for 12 rounds. Ali was the only person to stop Oscar Bonavena. I'd say he's a more dangerous and proven puncher than Vitali.

 

Young Vitali had way more power than the faded man who fought Briggs though.

And it would have been fine if the fight had been stopped, Briggs had to go to the hospital.

 

lewis is too good and smart a boxer for liston. lewis by decision

 

I would argue that that achievement is on par with Vitali stopping Adamek, who was similar size to Bonavena (actually slightly bigger) and had also never been stopped.

Ali hasn't proven that he has the power to blast out 240-plus pound fighters, the way Vitali has on several occasions.

 

And would you call Leotis Martin or Ali huge punchers then?

All of the above Lennox ops could punch, i.e. they weren't featherfisted, and in Briggs's and Vitali's case possessed ridiculous stoppage stats to go with their evident heavy handedness. Citing a fight seven years later when Vit was pushing 40 and markedly slower of hand and foot as evidence that he couldn't punch is ridiculous to say the least, especially since you've already given Sonny a pass for getting stopped by Martin on the grounds of his age.

You're judging Lennox by one standard, and Sonny by another, and coming to erroneous conclusions as a result.

 

Precisely. It's very easy to focus on the negatives of Lennox's career and completely miss the positives. Sure, he was wobbled several times by big punchers, but how often was he put down and counted out?

 

Lewis by KO or Liston by KO or decision.Lewis decisioning a peak Liston would be the least likely outcome IMO.

I get this sense ,based on the Mercer and Bruno fights and the problems Lewis had dealing with his opponents' jabs and controlling the bouts.

 

whAT?:nut