Name best heavyweight boxer of all time

This idiot gets Clown of the Decade Award atsch He's got to be a child trolling.

 

He's just young.

 

Ali -

Beloved icon known around the world who revolutionized the sport.
Regonized GOAT
Awarded Fight of the century
Awarded Fight of the year 63, 64, 71, 74, 75... 5 Times
Was named fighter of the year more times than any other fighter.
His opponents got named fighter of the year multiple times.
His opponents fought the fight of the year multiple times.
Awarded Sportsman of the Century 1999
BBC Sports Personality of the Century Award

..........................................................................................

Awards for Wlad

ZERO
Aint that a *****.

 

Clearly your the muppet

 

Definitely not the Klitschko's

 

no, i'm afraid that's you. are you telling me that Louis or Ali would stand any sort of chance against Lewis? because if you are, you're clearly sitting in the clouds. Lewis would crush Joe in 1 or 2 rounds with absolutely no resistance coming back.

and Ali wouldn't be able to compete in terms of skill, size, reach or power. Lewis is the only fighter who has a real chance to KO Ali, but i'll be fair and just say that he'd get beat down like a dog for the full duration with KD's littered over the course of the fight and gets completely dominated. Ali wouldn't come close to having any sort of chance. to suggest otherwise is plain stupidity. Ali is an overrated boxer to say the least. against statues, he looked good. against a fighter with some sort of skill in there though, he either got beat or had a torrid time of it.

so please stop with the complete simpleton talk. i have enough of that already on this site as it is. :good

 

atsch Mindreader, what the hell are you talking about. Foreman wasn't good enough to beat a past best Ali, or a trash can in Young. Foremans resume is thin as hell.

he beat Norton, Frazier, Moorer and Lyle. that's it. the reason it isn't better is due to him not being good enough and being overrated like crazy. that's a horrible pick in terms of H2H AND resume. :deal

 

I would never in a million years believed Lewis would get knocked out by Rahman, who is no where close to as skilled as Ali.

Lewis is my second favorite fighter by the way, but Ali is the #1 HW...

My list goes

Ali
Louis
Lewis

Note, I am taking legacy into the argument.. It isn't necessarily head to head.

 

Gene Tunney was good too....

 

yeah but the situation regarding the loss to Rahamn is well documented. instead of training properly and turning up to get used to the altitude, he was busy pissing around on a film set. he turned up only 11 days before fight time. preparations are key. he messed up by over looking him.
when Lewis was prepared properly he completely dominated him and took him out. it wasn't due to Rahamn being on the same level as Lennox, it was due to lack off focus.

and besides, that punch would have knocked out any Heavy in history not named Ali. and even then there's a high probability that he goes down and out.

getting hit by a big puncher who has full leverage on the right hand while you have your mouth wide open and being side on taking the full force of the shot is going to spell disaster regardless of how good your chin is. Lewis bounced off the ropes as well to add more weight to the shot.

so for these reasons it shouldn't really be looked upon with a negative slant. it would happen to anyone under the circumstances.
Lewis, other than that and the McCall fight, proved to have a very good chin. the McCall fight has it's problems which i'm sure you already know about.

Foreman got outboxed AND put down by Young. he was nearly taken out by Lyle. he was ready for those so he doesn't have any excuses. his entire career was on the line so needed the win. he didn't get it because of his obvious weakness of not being able to fight on the front foot properly. throw in the fact that he pretty much had zero skill and it's not looking good in any way.
if Lewis had to fight a prime Foreman, he'd prepare properly the way he should and would destroy Foreman within about 5-7 rounds, it would be a miss-match. he's no where near to being on that level. Lennox is far too good for him.

in terms of legacy, Foreman isn't even in the same book. Lewis is a genuine HOF and ATG with a resume that has serious depth. Foreman doesn't. Louis doesn't. unless you think a load of wins against bums counts for something? count substance and you're good to go. anything else isn't worth acknowledging.

there is a serious argument for Lewis having the better resume and more depth to his resume that does Ali. if you don't agree, i'm cool with that. but to suggest that Ali is head and shoulders above is overstating it in the extreme. to make out that most of the fighters that Ali beat are genuine class is just too much for me to take in. it's plain lies.

H2H, Lewis beats all. the only fighter in history to compete in terms of resume is Ali, and even then i pick Lewis. so it's an easy choice when picking the best in history. no contest, as Lewis would say.

 

I know that Lewis wasn't himself against Rahman the first time, but do you know how many excuses can be made for Ali not being himself during any loss? Every one... I also love the fact that there is plenty of video that shows off his amazing ability, this isn't Jim Corbett, it is Ali..

I love Lennox Lewis almost as much as I do Roy Jones, but Ali would have never been knocked out by Rahman.. The fact that Lennox took a fight lightly and got sparked out, has to effect his legacy when comparing him to the best of all time.

I know Lennox can take a punch, and is possibly H2H the best ever at the weight..

But factoring in the fact that Ali in his 30's beat prime Foreman, who was able to come back and win the title back in the 90's speaks volumes of Ali's greatness.. No matter how you spin that assasin, it is amazing.. Sometimes what your opponent does benefits you, kind of like Hopkins schooling Pavlik after his trainer told him to retire for walking towards the Calzaghe corner at the end of a round...

Foreman winning back the title 20 years later, just goes to show, a post prime Ali, beat a better version.. I have to at least realize that Ali has a chance of beating Lennox head to head.. I don't think resumes are that close.. Ali has it pretty clear in my opinion.

 

LOL @ Lewis beating Ali. Pure comedy. lol im sure Rahman would knock Ali too LOL

 

Wow Assassin, just wow...

 

Ali wouldn't be able to stand up to the amazing ATG power, physical AND mental, that either Rahman or McCall would have brought into the ring. Ali wouldn't have lasted as long as Lewis did on those nights. Clearly, he is unbeatable. Ali is not, as proof from his fights against Frazier and Norton and getting beaten by guys like Leon Spinks and Trevor Berbick. Ali is mortal. Lewis is a God.







This forum... sometimes I want to rip at my hair.

 

If it is legacy then it has to go to Jack Johnson, 15 years undefeated beat all the best fighters. He beat guys who went on to beat dempsey. There was no better fighter than he, he wrestled with bulls, he was clever, started the trash talking, in and out, slick movement. He simply was the best boxer to lace up gloves. In a time where most boxers had teeth missing because of being hit, no mouth guards, smaller gloves, unlimited round battles, ropes were actually ropes and gloves were far less padded and the corner was a wood poll not covered with a nice soft covering, most boxers had scared up faces and jack johnson had barely a scratch and all his teeth. He was by far and away the greatest heavyweight fighter period. No one before or after him would stand a chance to beat him in his prime. He had to deal with alot more difficulties outside of the ring than any of the other boxers, he got regular hatemail, was attacked in the media for his race, when he would win white people would riot and kill people, he was threatened with serious death threats, people disliked him for marrying white women, the government was trying to lock him up. He was one of the most hated men in American history, he was the son of slaves and born during the civil war, he simply was the greatest boxer who ever lived. There could never possibly be someone as great as he. When will there ever be another great boxer whose parents were enslaved in America?

But more importantly Jack Johnson beat them all for 15 years he was the best, he beat Jeffries, fitzsimmons, burns, denver ed martin, small tall, powerful, clever, mover, plodder white, black blue Jack Johnson beat them all through and through. He was just too clever in the ring, boxing is a sport of intelligence. No matter if you put him in with ali, frazier, tyson, marciano, louis, charles, dempsey, foreman, norton, louis, k2, he'd beat them all. They'd never be able to land on him because he'd catch all their punches like willie mays catches baseballs. And sooner or later they'd stop punching once they can't land nothing or tire out from missing so much and Johnson would annihilate them with 1 swift punch in the 8-10th round. He could out dance and move Ali, he had more power than louis in his right hand, Johnson played with opponents and could knock them out at will. he was the ultimate in fighter and outfighter, he could punish you from anywhere. Johnson was lighting quick in his hands and had amazing power. If I wanted to make a perfect fighter it would be Jack Johnson. Muhammad Ali copied the anchor punch he used to knockout sonny liston from Jack Johnson. He was taught that punch by a mutual friend called stepin fetchit who Johnson had showed the punch. Jack Johnson invented a good deal of the punches and defensive maneuvers that exist in boxing many which are almost never used.

Consider that Nat Fleischer, the founder of Ring Magazine, who saw Johnson fight and those up to the Ali era, said, in his book Black Dynamite Vol 4., p. 6), “Jack Johnson boxed on his toes, could block from most any angle, was lightning fast on his feet, could feint an opponent into knots…he possessed everything a champion could hope for punch, speed, brains, cleverness, boxing ability and sharp-shooting.”

Fleischer also reported in 1958, that Johnson’s “mastery of ring science, his ability to block, counter, and feint, are still unexcelled.”

You have to understand in boxing everything comes from the jab. And guys like Johnson never allowed you to get it off. He would utterly dismantle top fighters like Klitschko and Larry holmes by taking their jab and making it a non factor. While those guys might try to use their size to lean in on Johnson it would be a gross error because johnson's plan was exactly that because there was and never has been a superior in fighter than Johnson.

To put it in perspective, fat old Jack Johnson stopped Fireman Jim Flynn in 9 rounds, who called Johnson racial epitets and was head butting him because Johson was tying him up on the inside and punching him at will. Flynn could not land nothing back because this is how good of an infighter Johnson was. Just a few years later fireman Jim Flynn destroyed Jack Dempsey in 1 round less than 2 years. Dempsey who is almost always ranked in the top 10 and often top 5. Just gives you an example of how great Johnson was.

Jack Johnson had every trick in the book, and alot of it has to be credited to choynski. Now he was brought to knock Johnson down a notch because Johnson was viewed to be too ****y. But since fighting was illegal in texas back then they both got locked up and choynski who was more experienced as Johnson was just starting out boxing, taught Johnson alot of tricks in the book. Choynski was one of the smaller guys so he needed alot of tricks as he gave jim jeffries and alot of the guys of his time tough fights. Johnson combined his natural talents with choynskis new moves and he was simply the greatest boxer ever. Either 1 was deadly enough but the combination of the 2 was unbeatable. Whether it was the 6'6 1/2, 240 pound 84 inch reach Denver Ed Martin, who was called the "colorado giant"and the man with the "best footwork in the business", he lasted a total of 2 rounds against Johnson.

Jack Dempsey said of Johnson, “He was the greatest catcher of punches that ever lived (glove blocker). And he could fight all night. He was a combination of Jim Corbett and Louis. I’m glad I didn’t have to fight him.”

Trevor Wignall agrees saying, "He could box as well as fight. He was a tremendously hard hitter, while, for a man his size, he was amazingly swift on his feet."

Charley Rose who saw both Johnson and Ali fight said, (July 1966 Ring), "Johnson would have caught Clay's jabs like Willie Mays catches a baseball." Ali’s lack of properly placed parrying hand to block a jab (he held his right hand out to the side when he jabbed) would allow Johnson to counter Ali's jab. Johnson’s superior defense and technical superiority would offset some of Ali’s natural gifts of speed, and quick reflexes. When Ali made a mistake Johnson had the hand speed to exploit it with a quick counter. Observors such as Archie Moore and Eddie Futch also picked Johnson in a dream fight against Ali. It would be a very interesting fight.

Nat Fleischer rated Johnson as the greatest heavyweight up to the time of his death in 1972. He picked Johnson in a dream fight over Joe Louis.

That is right, someone who actually knew boxing very well and saw Ali, Louis, Dempsey and Johnson and just about every boxer who is considered potential for the greatest ever fight, ranked Johnson the greatest.

John Durant wrote in The Heavyweight Champions of Johnson, “He was a genius in the ring. He was a flawless boxer with an almost perfect defense, and he could hit hard with either hand. A superb counter puncher, he was never off balance, always in position to hit, and he was a master of the art of feinting."

Johnson was simply the best boxer in the heavyweight division to laceup gloves. If you do not see that, you are either bias by ali's razzle dazzle or infatuated by joe louis' political elements. Politally ali and louis are bigger, but as boxers, and just in the ring, no one comes close to Johnson.