Ali- Who could have beat him?

Wlad mixes up the speed on his jab which is the smart thing to do, like a baseball pitcher throwing off speed. Still he has excellent speed for a heavy, up there with Holmes, an analogy that none other than Manny brought up BEFORE he started training him.

I would pick Ali to win because I would pick Ali, at his best, to win- on average- over every other heavyweight. Wlad COULD win but it would not be in the odds. The best version of Wlad, and again this a thing you Classicists forget, that it is the best version against the best version unless otherwise stated, gives Ali one of the toughest fights of his career. He is just too seamless when he is on top of his game. In fact, you can argue that Wlad was on top of his game (8 years running?) longer than Ali ever was.

Louis' footwork is solid but ever so slightly ponderous and he has a tendency to follow rather than direct. Still, if you let him set, those hands fly fast and hard.

Again, you bring a carnival token to a bank.

 

I missed the part of this scenario where Wlad gets possessed by the ghost of Sonny Liston...

 

Manny said allot of things...does not mean they are accurate or true. Just watching Holmes and Wlad you can clearly see Holmes was the quicker fighter. His jab is quicker...much more so and certainly prime Holmes had superior and quicker footwork. Also similar to Ali Holmes catches opponents at angles with his jab. Great reflexes, timing and speed are what makes a jab a great punch. Holmes had far quicker reflexes than Wlad.

You went from calling Louis footwork Cautious and intentional to solid within two posts. prime Louis had excellent footwork...much better than Wlad by a huge margin. Louis could move and box, counterpunch with incredible accuracy, step in and out. Add to this all time defensive talents...slipping, parrying, blocking, ducking and then countering to vital areas of the body...all of which Wlad has zero abilities. One of the attributes of all time greatness is the ability to seamlessly go from defense to offense and Louis did this like no other.

I live boxing in the USA...you think about it in Portugal.

 

You saying things and Manny saying things are so drastically different as to make one laugh. Here's a sampling of what some smart people have to say about Wlad...

“Wlad has the best footwork, co-ordination and balance of any fighter I’ve been with." Manny.

“Foot Speed. He can move in, explode, move out, move back in, explode, and I’ve never seen anyone that could…move in and out and be in perfect balance." Manny.

"Klitschko is a tremendous athlete for his size, and his footwork and balance deftly allow him to control almost all of his fights from start to finish. " Zachary Alapi.

"If you carefully observe Wladimir Klitschko, the foundation of his entire boxing strategy is his underrated footwork," explains James Gogue. "Moving in and out while keeping his distance frustrates his opponents and limits their attack." James Gogue

Here's him with Jonathan Banks...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZIjF58Nc1I


And by the way, raised in the US, boxed 6 years there, brah.

 

Raised in the US, lived in the US my entire life although traveled world wide on business extensively. Been involved with boxing since the early mid 70s. Known many past champions and trainers through the years.

Again Manny said lots of things...did not mean they were true. Having footwork does not mean its anywhere close to what Ali, Holmes or Louis brought to the table in this regard. Your mistake is thinking any level of footwork, having a long jab makes this slow walking statue on par with Ali Holmes or Louis. Its not comparable. In comparison Wlad is one dementional and would in fact be a wide open target for any of these three. Lets not forget that Wlad was koed in laughable fashion by Ross Purity, Sanders and Brewster. Thats three times koed once by Ross Purity....and he's going to beat Joe Louis and Ali? Styles do indeed make fights...Wlad does not have the style, skill or chin to compete with these very elite heavyweights.

 

I think Kenny Norton always beats Ali. Whether he gets the decision or not is another story. He just had the style to take away Ali`s strengths.

Norton would always avoid Ali`s jab while landing his own. Ali with no jab isnt the same force.

Joe Frazier would always have a reasonable chance against any version of Ali. Smokin Joe had the ability to cut the ring off and apply the pressure necessary to make Ali stop moving and eventually stand and trade. Never a good thing against the mighty Joe Frazier.

Its always a barnburner with those two.

I also give Lennox Lewis a pretty good chance. His dimensions height, skillset and unGodly power.

 

Norton and Frazier never fought prime Ali.

 

Ali could be beaten by many great heavyweights, but NO ONE is knocking him out that's for sure!

 

Ungodly power?!

 

Well then, your lack of knowledge is hardly to be explained.

Ali had the movement and size to trouble boxers from his era, who were even smaller than him. Speaking about Louis being quick on foot, are you serious? Wlad Klitschko slow, one dimensional? Now bringing up Purity, Sanders and Brewster, it just shows that you are trying to bring any argument necessary to discredit Wlad, even these arguments cannot even be applied.

 

Any argument? Ross Purity a complete bum knocked out Wlad....read that again a few times. If that were Ali you would be the first to point to it as why he was not that special. But not only Purity....two other nothings knocked out Wlad....I'll write that again....two other nobodies knocked Wlad out. That's three ko losses. Once again...the guy who knocked out Foreman, Liston and Frazier is going to lose to a guy who not only lost but was knocked out by purity, sanders and Brewster? Are you kidding me as well as being blind?

Never said Louis was quick afoot....he had great footwork....huge difference and if you knew what you were talking about you would understand...but you don't.

I can list many great trainers that would laugh at the idea of someone koed three times by nobodies, big and slow who looks for an exit when things get rough but all this does not matter...he would beat Ali. A joke! He would be cut to ribbons. Ali could not miss.

By the way.....Rooney, Atlas, Dundee, Tyson, Lewis, Foreman, Holyfield, Roach, Mayweather, Shields, All believe Ali would beat Wlad and most feel it would be a one sided bout. Now tell everyone expert opinion does not matter....typical for those who know little about what they speak.

 

Huh, I didn't know a mentally weak fighter could come back from 3 KO losses (when many were calling for their retirement) to become one of the most dominant champions in boxing history. But now, I'm totally sold. I'd buy that for a dollar twice.....no, in fact, I'd buy that thrice.

I learn something new everyday.

 

sometimes you learn more about a fighter in the quality of their defeats than in their victories. Vlad's kayo defeats were embarrassing.

No student of boxing would realistically favour the Klit brothers over Ali.

 

Lennox Lewis? Ah..yeah. His righthand was one of the greatest weapons in the history of the heavyweight division. You could ask Razor Ruddock or Andrew Golota who couldnt take it for even 1 round. Check Micheal Grant`s or Tommy Morrison`s opinion on the matter.

Or you could even ask David Tua who was reluctant to let his hands go after tasting Lewis`s power.

You can question a few things about Lennox Lewis but his power isnt one of them.

 

No they didnt but Ali still had basically the same style. He didnt hit hard enough to consistantly back Norton up even in his prime. Norton is always going to present a difficult puzzle for Ali with that stance and defense.