Does anyone have a full listing of the Jimmy Jacobs fight collection?

Nobody put a gun to anybody's head and said "spend tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars on an extremely rare collection".

Im not sure I get your meaning. Nobody forced Jacobs to spend his money on that collection but he did and once its his he can do with it what he wants.


"If someone did spend that much of their own volition, we're equally free to criticize their reasons for doing so. "

You are free to do whatever you want but its no different than criticizing him for wearing brown pants instead of black. Its his to do with as he peases and criticisim to the contrary rings hollow.



"Miserly reasons that have naught to do with the best long-term interests of the sport and its current and future generations of fans..."

Two points: 1. Without Jacobs these films may have disintegrated, so yes, he did provide a service that was in the interest of preservation. Having a degree in archaeology I can tell you that there are many many many items of historical interest that you have never seen and never will. They are preserved and thats what matters. However, that being said, point 2. These films are available if you are willing to go the extra mile to see them and dont abuse that privilege. Instead most want to sit on their ass, view them, sell them, post them for free, without ever having contributed their own blood sweat and tears. Sorry but I have no sympathy for that attitude.

"...but rather to sit on and sell off piece by piece despite having far more supply than you could possibly find demand for with this being such a niche sport these days..."


This collection was sold off (and not piece by piece) after Jacobs died and when Cayton was very old. Its no different than someone amassing a collection of rare comic books and unloading them when they are in their twilight for the benefit of their family. The collection had value, you clearly dont see that, and part of that value was its rarity: i.e. not having a bunch of people going around trading cheap quality copies like bubble gum cards.


"and the cross-section of diehard enthusiasts caring enough to loosen the purse-strings and those who can reasonably afford the asking price quite infinitesimally small, are IMO (and probably many others') shitty reasons."

This is a bull**** excuse and I'll give you an example why: For years Ive been criticized, like Jacobs, for acquiring rare footage and keeping it to myself (never mind that Ive always stated anyone who wants to watch it can, they just have to do so in person). Those same people typically say "we should all pool our resources and buy this footage so its available, blah blah blah." So recently I came across a trove of rare footage. Fights and fighters that had never been seen in some instances. The cost was extremely high and posted on another site an advert seeking ten people to pool our resources and acquire this collection. I made it known that what those people choose to do with the footage was their decision as I could not tell them how to use their own property. I got very, VERY few offers on this. Of those responses the majority were not serious. So basically I take that to mean that most people just want something for nothing. They dont care if I spend $500 or $1000 on a film, they want it for free. Thats just not realistic, I dont care what your supposed resources are. I want a Ferrari but I cant afford one. You want rare boxing films but cant afford them. Whats the difference?

"You're basically saying "WHATEVER.... :roll:" to the very concept of philanthropy, of any selfless act done by a member of a close-knit fraternal community for its greater benefit."

No, Im saying I understand economics and capitalism. I understand that Jacobs and Cayton bought these films boths as fans of the sport and as investors. I understand that they expected to make money off them (and did so by showing them on TV and in documentaries to generations of fans more grateful than you). I understand that when I invest my money in something and realize that it has some inherent value, whether its for trades or money or whatever that I would be an idiot to post it for free on youtube simply because you want to watch it for free. I cant afford to be a philanthropist. Why dont you go complain to Don King and Bob Arum for not charging free admission to their fights? Why not complain to Manny Pacqiuao and Mayweather for not fighting for free in your backyard for your entertainment? They have more money than I do. It seems a pretty weak and silly argument. These films dont belong to the public and never did.


"So in your fantasy world there are no charitable acts, eh? Nobody ever invests their own personal time, money or effort into anything they believe in?"

What does this have to do with boxing films? You want charity? You want me to be charitable or ESPN to be charitable and just give you these films? atsch Go to the movies and ask them to be charitable and let you in for free, come back here and tell me how far you get with that...

"Sorry to burst your bubble, but if I inherited a fortune or hit a jackpot that would cover a collection of films that desperately need to be saved & digitized for posterity and made available in the public domain for historians and fans down through the ages (because there's no good reason for that not to happen, especially where technology now exists to facilitate it) - YES, I absolutely would at personal loss post every single film to Youtube. Except I wouldn't consider it a loss, as it would be a thing not only worth doing but long overdue. You only label it a "loss" because in that scenario there is no material gain. That's a pretty vulgar, cynical, small-minded view."


Great! I hope it happens. But Im not holding my breath. Im not rich and Ive got a great collection. You dont need to be wealthy to get these films, you just have to work hard and be willing to spend. You clearly arent willing to do that. You want to wait and inherit a fortune so that essentially its not at great sacrifice that he acquire these films so its no big deal to release them. Basically you are saying "Im going to wait until I receive an excess of money for nothing that I never had, spend it on films that I wouldnt have otherwise purchased, and then give them away because I never would have had the money or the films in the first place." Which illustrates my point exactly. Try a different approach: Try taking the last $300 you have to your name and buy a rare film, maybe skip a couple of meals to afford it. Now tell me that film isnt going to be a little bit more precious to you. Another point I would make is your mentality is short sighted to begin with: You state that you would buy this collection of films and release them. Great, so your goal is to release THIS COLLECTION. But, this isnt the only collection of films out there. Not by a damn sight. When I buy a film, or a collection of films, I dont think "Well, thats it, Im done, Ive got them all." I think "Ok where is the next batch coming from and how do I get it." With your mentality you would get that collection, release it, and then when your aunty's inheretence runs out you would ***** and moan that you dont have the next batch for free.

"Anyone sitting on classic films they refuse to share in the hopes they'll someday make a mint from them (extremely implausible, and far likelier to lead to such films eventually being lost/forgotten about in some estate or worse, destroyed by the ravages of time or any number of factors) deserves to be robbed of those possessions and literally beaten to death.

...IMHO."

A couple of points: 1. It is impluasible but A. I dont know anyone who sits on their films because they expect to get rich off of them and B. Some do make a good amount of money off of their collections, Jim Jacobs is one but I know of others who have made in the six figures so that kinda busts that theory. Point 2. A lot people on here assume that these films will be lost. The vast majority of collections, professionally kept collections, arent going anywhere. They are transferred (for the most part) and safe, its the individual films and clips from problem reels (ones that are already in bad shape) that are the worry and no amount of "philanthropy" is going to help that. In fact they have a higher chance of survival right where they are than in the hands of some amateur who just wants to watch boxing films.

Like the Cayton/Jacobs collection: That collection is all transferred. It is now all on tape. Period. Some people on here have the mistaken impression that its these old nitrate films sitting there rotting away in ESPN vaults. Wrong. There are always these ridiculous rumors about what sits in that collection "Jeffries Monroe" "Gans Walcott" "Tiger Depaula" wrong, wrong and wrong. Jacobs was a notorious bullshitter. Some on here keep trumpeting that he was a man of integrity and that somehow means he never would have embellished his collection. He did. I could tell you dozens of stories of the some of the stuff he said or pulled in regards to his collection, but the bottom line is that while there are some rare fights in his collection most people here have seen most of them. What was rare when he found them is common now. There are very few gems that would make your eyes pop out of your head. I think most people would be slightly let down if they saw a list.

 

Great debate lads!

 

Great to see you back Klonpton! Excellent post.

 

Could you please send me the list?