Can Muhammad Ali defeat every heavyweight that ever fought?

Ali can beat everyone.

And he could do it all at the age of 22.

 

The MYTH of Ali lives on.

Not only is he not the greatest of all time.....he wasn't even the greatest of his own era. His HUGE mouth, and public persona managed to obscure the fact that he lost to Ken Norton at LEAST twice, if not three times (typical crooked Ali decisions notwithstanding), the great Leon Spinks, and of course Joe Frazier, who would barely even qualify as a HW today, and would probably fight at cruiser.

Ali was a very good HW. ONE of the best of his era. But in reality, not only would Lewis, Tyson, Holyfied, Holmes and a few others have beaten him, but even the Klits, who are a bit limited (though good at what they do) would handle him.

Give Ali a quiet and boring persona and he'd be a footnote in boxing history.

 

Yes. Ali in his prime was practically unbeatable. In a one fight series, Ali would beat everyone's ass in history .

 

Yeah, lets change Ali's persona and make him boring, and if we compare him to everyone in history, lets use the worst version of Ali, the one that lost...and Ali's opponents can use their best version of when they looked their best.

Waaaaaytago guys!

 

I think in light of your vast knowledge of the sport and the Ali era, I should probably avoid arguing with you.

 

Lewis beats him
Vitali beats him
Holmes beats him
Tyson beats him

Wlad, Bowe, Holyfield, Marciano have great shots at beating him.

Ali did well against unskilled statues. but against fighters with good movement and a little bit of skill, he either lost or had a torrid time of it.

Shavers beat him.
Norton beat him twice.
a bum called Jimmy Young beat him.
Frazier beat him.
Spinks beat him.

Could you imagine what Vitali and Lewis would do to him? with Ali being so easy to hit, it would be a painful night that's for sure.

 

Tyson ?

Did you not see what Kevin Mc Bride did to Tyson.

Stopped him midway through the bout.

And MBride was ranked 73rd at the time.

 

Sorry if you don't know more about boxing from the Ali/Frazier era. But the simple FACT is that Frazier weighed about 205 pounds for most of his fights. He got away with it then, because even the "big" HWs of the era, like Foreman, would be considered light by today's standards. Foreman was "huge" at the time of the Ali fight. His weight? 220lb, just 3 pounds more than Adamek weighed when he fought Areola. And Adamek is supposed to be too small to fight at HW.

If Frazier were around today, at 205 pounds, he'd be advised to drop down to cruiser, as he'd have next to no chance against the giants of today.

I fully realise that for some reason many are simply hypnotized by the Ali myth, but the fact is, he was not that special, and his record proves this.

Someone in this thread said that Ali's losses came when he was at his poorest. Bull****. Norton beat him twice in a row when Ali was the grand old age of 31. Norton was robbed on one of the decisions, but he nonetheless won the fight. This was Ali's prime, end of story.

Even when "old man" Ali was destroyed by Holmes he was...........38. Same as Wlad now. Admittedly, Ali was in bad shape....and for a good reason. He'd had the crap beaten out of him many times and unsurprisingly was suffering as a result. But "old" he was not.

Ali had just turned 36 when Leon Spinks beat him. Not exactly decrepit. That's how old Floyd is today, and HWs age a lot better than the lighter weight classes.

Face facts, Ali was a very good boxer with a huge persona. But nothing LIKE the best HW of all time. Not even close.

 

:good Excellent summary.

I often state that Ali was the best of his era while pointing out that he'd hardly be a fringe contender in the recent-current era. To the Ali worshipers that's not enough atsch

Ali's two famous trilogies were vs J Frazier and the recently departed K Norton. First of all I loved the grit Frazier showed and Norton was a class act, as was Joe.

Now let's talk reality. Ali went through hell to go 2-1 vs both fighters and considering Norton was robbed in their 3rd bout, Ali went .500 in those 6 fights (many think Ali-Norton 2 was shaded in Ali's favor and could easily be scored a draw).
Frazier would be massacred vs modern HWs. In his prime Joe was a slow starter and clumsy oxe Bonavena nearly stopped Joe as he was rising in the ranks. Indeed Joe would be advised to drop to CW if he could keep his stamina. I actually think in this era Joe would be too big for CW and way too small for HW. When JF fought "big" George he was over matched and easily stopped. In this era a D Haye or Arreola or A Povetkin or Adamek or... would out box or stop Joe.

Norton may have went 2-0-1 vs Ali, but in their 2nd & 3rd bouts Ali got the decision. After their 3rd fight a disheartened Ken remarked that Ali was bigger than boxing.
In this era the sculpted Norton would actually be a smallish HW :shock: and Ken was chinny by 70s HW standards. Ken was blasted out early by Foreman, Shavers (chinny himself), and late in his career by Cooney. Today :dead

Of course fans who mythologize Ali build up the likes of Frazier or Norton to keep his mythic status going. But to any rational observer it doesn't stand up to even bare logic. They do the opposite to LL or K bro opponents - why they're all garbage and it's a weak era :-( Well then the 60s-80s must be lower than garbage :yep

For ppl that have little of their own accomplishments, and who racially or nationally or politically identify w/Ali, they need to feel good about themselves. So they try to keep the myth alive. I've noticed over the past 5 years that more ppl are challenging - and mocking -the notion of Ali as the best ever HW. It's long overdue.

FFS, "the greatest" was a marketing slogan by Ali that the media picked up and ran with

 

Yep.......the political issue. Ali's politics naturally appealed to every brain-dead Lefty, misfit and malcontent, because Ali (himself a fuzzy thinker) was against pretty much everything. At least everything that represented Western Civilisation.

Even after 9/11 I saw a bitter old Ali being interviewed, and he said words to the effect of "I can't tell you what I think of the 9/11 episode, because I would lose my sponsorships". Naturally, the press, perennial lapdogs for the Left, didn't even report this amazing confession by "The Greatest". Do you think Ali was worried that if he revealed he was appalled by the 9/11 attacks his sponsors, which are American companies would have cut him off? Hardly. Ali was accidentally admitting that he was SYMPATHETIC to the 9/11 attacks. Astounding.

Foreman and Holmes, and to a lesser extent Witherspoon and Shavers are great living representatives of the "Golden Age" of the HW division. Ali most certainly is NOT.

 

He wouldn't beat everyone. He'd beat a lot of good fighters though, and great ones.

The most overrated aspect of Ali's greatness is the idea that his opposition was so much stronger than anyone else's. Really I think his charisma brought interest, and many of his opponents were built up to seem better than they were. Others were just plain awful. Plenty of his challengers wouldn't be credible enough to market in this PPV era, and probably wouldn't have drawn much of a crowd in the pre-TV old times ... but Ali existed in the golden age of colour TV in the 1970s, and had a massive personality, so got away with plenty of sideshow fights too.

 

Yes Ali could! Most without much effort! Prime Ali!

 

I quite like your post MMJOE. Couldn't have said it better.

 

Nope. He was beaten up by light heavyweight, he doesn't even know what to be hit by a superheavyweight means like.

 

The stupidity of some people on this forum dismays me...

Look at Ali in the first Liston fight..,whoever in the history of the sport could handle that speed and accuracy and pace...no one

He would of been absolutely all over the klits, darting in and out and scoring at will...it wouldnt even be competitive

His ring legend was not born until the night he lost to Frazier...his legend was born when suddenly people started to realise he was for real. legend of his magnitude must be earnt which is what he did