Is undefeated records in boxing impressive or not?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by hofbrau, Oct 20, 2013.


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  1. hofbrau

    hofbrau Well-Known Member Full Member

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    An undefeated record in boxing is undoubtedly impressive ... but it can also be misleading. Rocky Marciano and Joe Calzaghe are two of the few modern fighters who retired having won every single fight of their professional career. Both are Hall of Famers with wins over Hall of Fame caliber fighters on their resumes ... but both Marciano and Calzaghe scored their biggest wins against stars who were well past their primes.

    Sven Ottke and Ike Ibeabuchi are two other recent fighters who won each and every one of their pro bouts ... but both of those undefeated marks merit an asterisk next to the zero.

    Ottke went 34-0 in a pro career that spanned from 1997 to 2004. He won the IBF super middleweight title from Charles Brewer in only his 13th pro bout and defended that title an amazing 21 times! So what's the problem? He never left Germany to defend his title. He never tested himself against the best in the world during his era. His prime coincided with the primes of Joe Calzaghe in his own weight class, Roy Jones Jr. and Antonio Tarver just above him at light heavyweight, and Bernard Hopkins and Felix Trinidad just below him at middleweight. Boxing politics can be brutal so this is not to suggest that Ottke was intentionally ducking anyone. However, without a signature fight on his resume, it's impossible to consider him an all-time great ... despite the undefeated record.
     
    hofbrau, Oct 20, 2013
    hofbrau, Oct 20, 2013
    #1
  2. MidniteProwler

    MidniteProwler Fab 4. Mayor of Aussie Boxing Full Member

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    Calzaghe & Ottke not impressive those two muppets wouldn't even fight each other and they are both based in Europe.
     
    MidniteProwler, Oct 20, 2013
    MidniteProwler, Oct 20, 2013
    #2
  3. bballchump11

    bballchump11 2011 Poster of the Year Full Member

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    of course it's impressive to defeat every single fighter you faced. Are you telling me it's more impressive to lose?
     
    bballchump11, Oct 20, 2013
    bballchump11, Oct 20, 2013
    #3
  4. True_Hero

    True_Hero Guest

    Seems to be only yanktards who cry about Ottke's and Calzaghe's record. Probably bitter because they can't stand the fact white European's went unbeaten and kicked the ass of so many black American boxers.

    Americans have to be the most appalling, racist and xenophobic boxing fans in the world. Anyone who isn't a black American, they **** on, regardless. Yet any average, black American talent such as Broner and Wilder, the yanks LOVE to suck off. They're that desperate for a "great black hope" they're pinning their hopes on Windmiller who got knocked down by fatty Nicholls.
     
    True_Hero, Oct 20, 2013
    True_Hero, Oct 20, 2013
    #4
  5. Holy Grail

    Holy Grail Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Depends on the opponents

    If you cherrypick around styles/risks then it's less impressive

    I have more respect to the fighters who fought the toughest opponents even with a couple of losses
     
    Holy Grail, Oct 20, 2013
    Holy Grail, Oct 20, 2013
    #5
  6. MidniteProwler

    MidniteProwler Fab 4. Mayor of Aussie Boxing Full Member

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    I am the only one in this thread bagging Ottke & Calzaghe and I was born in Argentina but live in Australia. My question is why didn't those 2 muppets fight each other? there is no logical explanation apart from ducking.
     
    MidniteProwler, Oct 20, 2013
    MidniteProwler, Oct 20, 2013
    #6
  7. Lopetego

    Lopetego Guest

    You just described Mayweather's career for the last ten years right there
     
    Lopetego, Oct 20, 2013
    Lopetego, Oct 20, 2013
    #7
  8. nes01

    nes01 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Agree with most of what's been said. It's all about "who did you beat". The "who beat you" question is several rungs beneath this in terms of importance. It's cool to be undefeated, but there are many things that can be cool. In terms of legacy, it's all about your opposition. An undefeated Calzaghe clearly goes down in history much beneath the previously defeated Jones jr and Hopkins.
     
    nes01, Oct 20, 2013
    nes01, Oct 20, 2013
    #8
  9. bballchump11

    bballchump11 2011 Poster of the Year Full Member

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    he cherry picked the best opponent available
     
    bballchump11, Oct 20, 2013
    bballchump11, Oct 20, 2013
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  10. lunchmoneypunch

    lunchmoneypunch Member Full Member

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    Boxing isn't about undefeated. Boxing isn't about who you beat either. Boxing is a martial art and is in fact about skill level. If you are a supremely SKILLED fighter like say RIGO. You deserve to be greatly praised even with just a few fights.
     
    lunchmoneypunch, Oct 20, 2013
    lunchmoneypunch, Oct 20, 2013
    #10
  11. Boxing Prospect

    Boxing Prospect Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    The "who you beat and when" is the key here. Michael Loewe and Terry Marsh are probably two better examples than Calzaghe and Ottke in all honesty.
     
    Boxing Prospect, Oct 20, 2013
    Boxing Prospect, Oct 20, 2013
    #11
  12. Farmboxer

    Farmboxer VIP Member Full Member

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    Bradley is called undefeated, but he has been beaten two times. Good thing Bradley has had his referee and judges to save him.
     
    Farmboxer, Oct 20, 2013
    Farmboxer, Oct 20, 2013
    #12
  13. bballchump11

    bballchump11 2011 Poster of the Year Full Member

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    bballchump11, Oct 20, 2013
    bballchump11, Oct 20, 2013
    #13
  14. Farmboxer

    Farmboxer VIP Member Full Member

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    Ricardo Lopez was boxing 101.................
     
    Farmboxer, Oct 20, 2013
    Farmboxer, Oct 20, 2013
    #14
  15. nes01

    nes01 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    No its not about your skills lol. It's about who you beat. We've seen countless occasions where more skilled boxers lose to tougher guys. Skills is one aspect that makes you a good boxer, you also need mental fortitude, power, speed, stamina, a chin, strength and durability. It's the collective combination of all the above that make you good, and then you have to PROVE it by beating good fighters.

    You cannot say all of the above are unimportant and the only things that count is your skill. That would be hugely stupid.
     
    nes01, Oct 20, 2013
    nes01, Oct 20, 2013
    #15
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