Where'd it go wrong for Riddick Bowe

Azzer85 · Oct 24, 2013

Whenever i think of Bowe-Golota, i always have to watch Tyson dismantle Golota.

If there's one fight where a fighter got what he deserves its this one.

Delicious · Oct 24, 2013

His heart was never in question but a lack of dedication to the sport and a lot of punishment over the Holyfield fights meant his fire only burnt for a short while.

Hotsauce · Oct 24, 2013

Threw his belt in the trash can

G_Haugen · Oct 24, 2013

Riddick Bowe, would have been a tough fight for any of the ATG Heavyweight Champions. He had all the physical gifts, was tough as any, with a will to win. That being said, he often was not in peak condition, and showed sloppy technique. He took his physical gifts for granted, and paid for it in a short career.

Having Rock Newman, as a manager was a big hinderance ultimately to his career. After his 3rd fight with Holyfield, I noticed a marked change in his speaking clarity. The Golota fights left him damaged goods. All in all, he could have accomplished more with a better manager, and if he had been more diligent in his training habits. Eddie Futch, if given a fighter with the training habits of a Joe Frazier, would have had a monster in Bowe.

Unforgiven · Oct 25, 2013

apollack said: ↑

A lot of revisionist and forgetful history in this thread. I carefully watched Bowe's career. The guy was a hell of a fighter. I would like to correct a lot of misconceptions about his career.

First of all, Bowe was only slightly stunned by Lewis in the Olympic final. He never went down. The stoppage by the East German referee was very premature for an Olympic final, and consistent with the shaky/shady officiating/judging in that '88 Olympics. Recall also that the referee took a point off Bowe for ducking - in the very 1st round, when Lewis had been pushing his head down incessantly with no point off. Bowe was only 216 and 21 years old for that fight, and got a lot bigger, stronger, better, and more mature over the years. He was fighting a 23-year-old who had already fought in the '84 Olympics.

I honestly believe the Bert Cooper Bowe stopped in 2 rounds was the "on" version of Cooper, but Bowe had freaky underrated power blended with great height and reach that Cooper could not handle. If you watch carefully, Cooper's punches are speedy, snappy, and sharp, and he's pretty frisky in that fight, trying hard to nail Bowe with something big.

Beating Pinklon Thomas and Tony Tubbs on the way up wasn't too bad either. Tubbs was one of the fastest and most skillful heavys around, and Bowe met a very sharp version of Tubbs. Former Olympic champion Biggs came to fight and was in good shape for that one too.

Bowe blasted through future WBA champ Seldon in 1 round. Bruce's only loss to that point was a 9th round KO to McCall.

The first Holyfield fight was a war because Bowe forced Holyfield to fight a war. Bowe was relentless in that fight, could hit Holy from far away with his height and reach, kept a tremendous pace, and could war on the inside. His body shots and uppercuts in that fight were excellent.

Sure Bowe got a bit fat after that, but he was still in darn good shape. He blasted through Dokes in 1. Remember, Dokes was on a nine-fight win streak, Holy had stopped him in 10, and Ruddock in 4. Bowe was like a knife through butter.

Mercer was supposed to fight Bowe, but Mercer then got beat by Ferguson. Bowe then blasted through Ferguson in 2.

I say that although Bowe was not in the type of shape he was in for the first fight, he was still in good shape for the second fight. I actually think he kept a solid pace, and if you aren't swept away by Holy's flurries, particularly the round stealing ones at the conclusion of rounds, Bowe actually did the more consistent work during the rounds. His jab was very heavy and solid. Holy took off a large portion of rounds and moved a lot. Holy tended to get tired in fights, and Bowe was the type of fighter whose consistent output and pressure does not allow a fighter off the hook when he gets tired. Instead of giving you a rest, Bowe works the body and wears you down. He did it in fights I and III. However, fan man gave Evander a 20-minute break in the 7th round, fundamentally altering the bout and making it less likely that Bowe would be able to wear him down. That fight should have been a no contest. That said, I still thought Bowe earned no worse than a draw watching it live. Bowe lost a close majority decision 113-115, 114-115, 114-114.

Now here is where everyone's memory fades. Bowe had an excellent resume after the close loss to Holyfield, perhaps the best in boxing during those years. He was not afraid to take on undefeated fighters.

True he accidentally fouled Mathis, Jr. who had taken a knee, but that it was only one punch and is excusable given how low Buster was constantly ducking. In reality Bowe stopped him, and Mathis was undefeated at 14-0.

Larry Donald was a former Olympian, cagey, quick, slick boxer, who had beaten Cooper and then undefeated Jeremy Williams. Donald was undefeated at 16-0, and Bowe won every round against a guy who was so intimidated by the power that he was basically in there to survive. Donald would not lose another fight for the next 6.5 years, and beat guys like Witherspoon, Puritty, and Phil Jackson.

Herbie Hide was 26-0 with 25 KOs, and was coming off a brutal KO of Michael Bentt, who had quickly stopped Tommy Morrison. Bowe looked like a ferocious powerful killer in that fight and blasted the hell out of Hide.

Cuban Jorge Luis Gonzalez was 23-0, and boasted amateur victories over Bowe and Lewis. Big, tall, heavy dude. Watch Bowe's performance in that one. Nothing wrong with him there. He is absolutely razor sharp, and looked fantastic in administering a brutal beating. His punches are sharp and quick, and his pace excellent for a heavyweight.

So then Bowe fights Holyfield for the third time. Evander is coming off a great victory in a very competitive fight over an "on" and in-shape Mercer, having dropped Ray for the first time in that iron-jawed heavyweight's career. And anyone who followed Mercer's career knows that when Ray was in shape, he had serious power, speed, and a freaking jaw that couldn't be cracked by a bat.

The third Holyfield fight was a war. Bowe again kept a very good consistent pace, making Evander fight him constantly, not allowing him any breaks, working the body very well, and landing his heavy blows at his usual metronome rate. Evander tried to get Bowe to back off, firing bombs. Eventually, with Evander on the verge of going out, he blasts Bowe with a picture perfect hook that drops him. Bowe shows heart and some caginess in getting out of trouble. He is very well recovered by the next round. Again in the 8th round, Evander nails him with a good punch. In trying to follow-up, Evander attacks. Bowe counters with a beautifully timed right that nails Evander perfectly and decks him. Evander rises, but Bowe follows up well and stops him. This was the first time Evander was ever stopped in his career. Two fights later, Holy would stop Mike Tyson. Holy would not be stopped again for eight years. Nothing wrong with Bowe's toughness, heart, power, or condition in that one. People seem to want to forget that Bowe won two out of three with Evander, beat him soundly in those two, and only lost razor close in one.

Andrew Golota was another former Olympian, undefeated at 28-0. Another big, tall, heavy guy. The Golota fights ruined him of course, but Bowe also sealed his legend in those fights as well. He proved himself to have not only power and condition, but toughness and heart the likes of which I have never seen in the heavyweight division, EVER, bar none. The brutal punishment he took in those fights, and yet to be able to continue fighting to the best of his ability, says something special about him as a fighter. People forget that although he took a beating in the second Golota fight, he administered plenty of punshiment himself all the while, decking Golota and hurting him badly on occasions as well. Golota was frustrated by the fact that no matter how hard or often he hit Bowe, Riddick would not quit, and Andrew kept getting hit back on occasion by some seriously heavy blows, blows hard enough to cause Golota to lose heart and lose his mind. In the battle of wills, Bowe twice defeated him; twice got him to break mentally. That's no fluke. And to do it, Bowe had to show the heart of a lion.

Bowe retires. At that point, he had never been stopped, only one loss which was very close, which was avenged by KO, having beaten Holyfield twice, and was the only man to stop Holy.

The combined record of Bowe's opponents after losing his title in a majority decision to Holy was 166-3. Holy had two losses (Bowe, Moorer) and Golota one as of the rematch (to Bowe). Bowe had fought five undefeated fighters in that stretch of time and beat all of them.
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Good post. :good
Bashing Bowe seems to have become a 'hip' thing to do on this forum.

Unforgiven · Oct 25, 2013

The knock on Bowe that he 'threw the belt in the trash can' and the myth that he 'ducked' and was 'scared of Lewis' should have been fully discredited by now.
But it persists among the lazy-minded.

I guess Bowe and Newman lost to PR war.
Maloney and Lewis won that PR war, along with their 'partners' Don King and his lackey Jose Sulaiman.

If anyone's in doubt, go back to the 1993 sources, read a fair sample of the newspapers. Look at all the GOOD OFFERS Maloney and Lewis turned down in 1993. Look at how they kept putting the price up. Massive purse offers were turned down. Look at how they were as much an obstacle to the match as Bowe and Newman were.
Consider that Maloney himself has admitted he turned down good offers. Look at how he exploited the WBC's (Don King's !) own feud with Rock Newman (that went back long before any Lennox Lewis issue) and became part Don King's plans (while complaining they 'had to' deal with King !).

The information is all out there.

Unforgiven · Oct 25, 2013

He should certainly have been DQ'd against Buster Mathis Jr. though

Azzer85 · Oct 25, 2013

Unforgiven said: ↑

The knock on Bowe that he 'threw the belt in the trash can' and the myth that he 'ducked' and was 'scared of Lewis' should have been fully discredited by now.
But it persists among the lazy-minded.

I guess Bowe and Newman lost to PR war.
Maloney and Lewis won that PR war, along with their 'partners' Don King and his lackey Jose Sulaiman.

If anyone's in doubt, go back to the 1993 sources, read a fair sample of the newspapers. Look at all the GOOD OFFERS Maloney and Lewis turned down in 1993. Look at how they kept putting the price up. Massive purse offers were turned down. Look at how they were as much an obstacle to the match as Bowe and Newman were.
Consider that Maloney himself has admitted he turned down good offers. Look at how he exploited the WBC's (Don King's !) own feud with Rock Newman (that went back long before any Lennox Lewis issue) and became part Don King's plans (while complaining they 'had to' deal with King !).

The information is all out there.
Click to expand...

thats the problem history is written by the 'winners'. In this case, it was lewis who beat Tyson and Holyfield and finished his career better than Bowe which to some means, Lewis and co were right all along and he was being ducked by everyone.

HOUDINI · Oct 25, 2013

If Bowe had someone like Dundee to train him and never been involved with Newman he would have been great. He had all the tools...he needed motivation.

hookfromhell · Oct 25, 2013

Word Unforgiven great posts. They don't em like that anymore.
Skill, Heart, Charisma, Flaws what more could you ask for?
I remember back in the day Riddick himself saying that he
got lazy being champ and didn't train properly for the second
Holy fight. Newman said that he put on weight under a new regimen/gameplan.
Let's not forget the trilogy was three wars, and they were all classic fights.
I haven't seen Bowe Golota 1 in years, I need to rewatch it. But Bowe
didn't have the eye of the tiger in the second fight. Watch the ring walk
he didn't have the killer look in his eye, but of course he went on to
show all the heart and will to win in the world. So basically not wanting
to go through the hell of training to a tee , taking a lot of shots
plus gym wars. He sure brought a lot of excitement in a very stacked
division, but if he fought Morrison, Tua, Tyson, Lewis, Foreman etc
He would have been top 5.
The infamy of the two Golota fights, the brutal Gonzalez beatdown,
the classic trilogy, the boxing lessons, early knockouts all add up
to a damn entertaining career.

he grant · Oct 25, 2013

apollack said: ↑

A lot of revisionist and forgetful history in this thread. I carefully watched Bowe's career. The guy was a hell of a fighter. I would like to correct a lot of misconceptions about his career.

First of all, Bowe was only slightly stunned by Lewis in the Olympic final. He never went down. The stoppage by the East German referee was very premature for an Olympic final, and consistent with the shaky/shady officiating/judging in that '88 Olympics. Recall also that the referee took a point off Bowe for ducking - in the very 1st round, when Lewis had been pushing his head down incessantly with no point off. Bowe was only 216 and 21 years old for that fight, and got a lot bigger, stronger, better, and more mature over the years. He was fighting a 23-year-old who had already fought in the '84 Olympics.

I honestly believe the Bert Cooper Bowe stopped in 2 rounds was the "on" version of Cooper, but Bowe had freaky underrated power blended with great height and reach that Cooper could not handle. If you watch carefully, Cooper's punches are speedy, snappy, and sharp, and he's pretty frisky in that fight, trying hard to nail Bowe with something big.

Beating Pinklon Thomas and Tony Tubbs on the way up wasn't too bad either. Tubbs was one of the fastest and most skillful heavys around, and Bowe met a very sharp version of Tubbs. Former Olympic champion Biggs came to fight and was in good shape for that one too.

Bowe blasted through future WBA champ Seldon in 1 round. Bruce's only loss to that point was a 9th round KO to McCall.

The first Holyfield fight was a war because Bowe forced Holyfield to fight a war. Bowe was relentless in that fight, could hit Holy from far away with his height and reach, kept a tremendous pace, and could war on the inside. His body shots and uppercuts in that fight were excellent.

Sure Bowe got a bit fat after that, but he was still in darn good shape. He blasted through Dokes in 1. Remember, Dokes was on a nine-fight win streak, Holy had stopped him in 10, and Ruddock in 4. Bowe was like a knife through butter.

Mercer was supposed to fight Bowe, but Mercer then got beat by Ferguson. Bowe then blasted through Ferguson in 2.

I say that although Bowe was not in the type of shape he was in for the first fight, he was still in good shape for the second fight. I actually think he kept a solid pace, and if you aren't swept away by Holy's flurries, particularly the round stealing ones at the conclusion of rounds, Bowe actually did the more consistent work during the rounds. His jab was very heavy and solid. Holy took off a large portion of rounds and moved a lot. Holy tended to get tired in fights, and Bowe was the type of fighter whose consistent output and pressure does not allow a fighter off the hook when he gets tired. Instead of giving you a rest, Bowe works the body and wears you down. He did it in fights I and III. However, fan man gave Evander a 20-minute break in the 7th round, fundamentally altering the bout and making it less likely that Bowe would be able to wear him down. That fight should have been a no contest. That said, I still thought Bowe earned no worse than a draw watching it live. Bowe lost a close majority decision 113-115, 114-115, 114-114.

Now here is where everyone's memory fades. Bowe had an excellent resume after the close loss to Holyfield, perhaps the best in boxing during those years. He was not afraid to take on undefeated fighters.

True he accidentally fouled Mathis, Jr. who had taken a knee, but that it was only one punch and is excusable given how low Buster was constantly ducking. In reality Bowe stopped him, and Mathis was undefeated at 14-0.

Larry Donald was a former Olympian, cagey, quick, slick boxer, who had beaten Cooper and then undefeated Jeremy Williams. Donald was undefeated at 16-0, and Bowe won every round against a guy who was so intimidated by the power that he was basically in there to survive. Donald would not lose another fight for the next 6.5 years, and beat guys like Witherspoon, Puritty, and Phil Jackson.

Herbie Hide was 26-0 with 25 KOs, and was coming off a brutal KO of Michael Bentt, who had quickly stopped Tommy Morrison. Bowe looked like a ferocious powerful killer in that fight and blasted the hell out of Hide.

Cuban Jorge Luis Gonzalez was 23-0, and boasted amateur victories over Bowe and Lewis. Big, tall, heavy dude. Watch Bowe's performance in that one. Nothing wrong with him there. He is absolutely razor sharp, and looked fantastic in administering a brutal beating. His punches are sharp and quick, and his pace excellent for a heavyweight.

So then Bowe fights Holyfield for the third time. Evander is coming off a great victory in a very competitive fight over an "on" and in-shape Mercer, having dropped Ray for the first time in that iron-jawed heavyweight's career. And anyone who followed Mercer's career knows that when Ray was in shape, he had serious power, speed, and a freaking jaw that couldn't be cracked by a bat.

The third Holyfield fight was a war. Bowe again kept a very good consistent pace, making Evander fight him constantly, not allowing him any breaks, working the body very well, and landing his heavy blows at his usual metronome rate. Evander tried to get Bowe to back off, firing bombs. Eventually, with Evander on the verge of going out, he blasts Bowe with a picture perfect hook that drops him. Bowe shows heart and some caginess in getting out of trouble. He is very well recovered by the next round. Again in the 8th round, Evander nails him with a good punch. In trying to follow-up, Evander attacks. Bowe counters with a beautifully timed right that nails Evander perfectly and decks him. Evander rises, but Bowe follows up well and stops him. This was the first time Evander was ever stopped in his career. Two fights later, Holy would stop Mike Tyson. Holy would not be stopped again for eight years. Nothing wrong with Bowe's toughness, heart, power, or condition in that one. People seem to want to forget that Bowe won two out of three with Evander, beat him soundly in those two, and only lost razor close in one.

Andrew Golota was another former Olympian, undefeated at 28-0. Another big, tall, heavy guy. The Golota fights ruined him of course, but Bowe also sealed his legend in those fights as well. He proved himself to have not only power and condition, but toughness and heart the likes of which I have never seen in the heavyweight division, EVER, bar none. The brutal punishment he took in those fights, and yet to be able to continue fighting to the best of his ability, says something special about him as a fighter. People forget that although he took a beating in the second Golota fight, he administered plenty of punshiment himself all the while, decking Golota and hurting him badly on occasions as well. Golota was frustrated by the fact that no matter how hard or often he hit Bowe, Riddick would not quit, and Andrew kept getting hit back on occasion by some seriously heavy blows, blows hard enough to cause Golota to lose heart and lose his mind. In the battle of wills, Bowe twice defeated him; twice got him to break mentally. That's no fluke. And to do it, Bowe had to show the heart of a lion.

Bowe retires. At that point, he had never been stopped, only one loss which was very close, which was avenged by KO, having beaten Holyfield twice, and was the only man to stop Holy.

The combined record of Bowe's opponents after losing his title in a majority decision to Holy was 166-3. Holy had two losses (Bowe, Moorer) and Golota one as of the rematch (to Bowe). Bowe had fought five undefeated fighters in that stretch of time and beat all of them.
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I'm on the same page as you for the most part except do feel he froze against Lewis in the Olympics and should have fought him as a pro.

C.J. · Oct 27, 2013

Azzer85 said: ↑

I did cover this in a previous thread, its mentioned in Tysons book.

Bowe dumped the belt in the bin to get back at the WBC who were looking to charge him extorniate amounts of money to sanction a fight.

He did not do it to duck Lewis.

Lewis team took full advantage of this and basically spread the rumour that Bowe was ducking him.

Oviously Bowe and Lewis didnt fight and that makes Bowe look like the guilty party.

I believe the whole Lewis was ducked is overstated. Lewis has one of the best resumes ever at hwy. You cant be ducked by everyone and clear out your division at the same time, it doesnt make sense.

Mercer, Bruno, Morrison, Mcall, Akinwande had no problem fighting Lewis, but apparently Tyson, Holyfield and Bowe were **** scared of him?
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Absolutely not true......

Holyfield, Bowe Lewis & Ruddock all signed a deal. Bowe faced Holyfield Who Newman considered the easiest fight. Lewis took on Ruddock, who after his epic fight with Tyson was considered the favorite.
The agreement stated that then the two winners meet to decide who was the real champion. Bowe beat Holyfield in perhaps his best fight as a pro. Then Lewis totally destroyed Ruddock. which made Newman & Bowe think again. Bowe blatantly renaged on the deal with Lewis & that's how the WBC belt ended up in the trash can.
I asked Newman one night in Dallas why Bowe renaged on Lewis His answer was " When folk will buy fights with Dokes & Ferguson why should we risk it all against Lewis"? My answer was " In that case Bowe is not the real champion" Newman smirked " Who has the belts my friend "? Bowe does not Lewis

Seamus · Oct 27, 2013

I also watched Bowe and his camp closely, which wasn't an enviable task. I don't see him in quite such a rosy light. He was lazy, had bad technique (did he ever learn to throw a straight right?), often chose the wrong fight to fight and was a bit more fragile than is let on here. For contrast, Lewis fought the hardest punchers the division offered, in an era of powerpunching monsters, got stopped twice but didn't fade out at 28. He was still lucid and performing well at 38.

PR battle or not, he should have and could have fought Lewis. Newman fed me the same line he did to CJ above, that the Dokes fight was a slam dunk with the suggestion that people would pay to see him fight a girl scout. I don't give him the credit Adam does for the Hide or Gonzalez fights as both guys turned out to be C-raters at best. His legacy rests on the the 3 Holy fights, who himself was a bit inconsistent in the heavy class. His legacy is also tainted moreso by those he missed, taking on the Ferguson's and Doke's of the world instead.

In the end, Newman got out of Bowe exactly what Bowe's talent and will offered.

crippet · Oct 28, 2013

He was ourt on his feet against Herbie Hide and Hide could of easily won if he just carried on pot shotting him and staying way out of range with his speed, but when he saw Bowe hurt he decided to trade with him - - - - If the Haye who fought Vlad was in with Bowe that night I think he would have stopped Bowe, wouldnt of been pretty, but Bowe couldnt cope with Hayes speed.

apollack · Oct 28, 2013

crippet said: ↑

He was ourt on his feet against Herbie Hide and Hide could of easily won if he just carried on pot shotting him and staying way out of range with his speed, but when he saw Bowe hurt he decided to trade with him - - - - If the Haye who fought Vlad was in with Bowe that night I think he would have stopped Bowe, wouldnt of been pretty, but Bowe couldnt cope with Hayes speed.
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Right, because against Klitschko, Haye proved how courageous he is and able to put in a winning performance against a big guy who can punch. Wait...

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Where'd it go wrong for Riddick Bowe

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