How Good Were Benn and Eubanks ?

That's another name that should come up more. I thought he fought a very good fight against McCallum.

 

Yeah he changed his name to Eubank. If you ever notice any of Naz's interviews he over emphasises the 'S' at the end of Eubanks as if he's highlighting Eubank is a fraud who changed his name.

 

Collins was as tough as they came-granite jaw and tip top shape for every fight. Had little power and fought sloppy. Should of been given the nod in the Kalambay fight. The Reggie Johnson fight could've gone either way or a draw would've been acceptable. The only clear loss was the fight to McCallum. Doubled up wins on Eubank and Benn late in his career.

 

I am clearly in the minority, and perhaps atberry is the only one who might agree....but I have never minded being a minority! I believe Eubank was the best in the world in his day on par w/ RJJ and always felt that he would have beat Jones....still do! Benn on the other hand is seems to get more credit than Eubank, even though I don't find him on the same level. Benn had a big punch, and people fall in love with sluggers and tend to rate them more highly than they deserve on multiple occasions (ie Carlos Zarate!!!!!!!!!!). Benn was a solid contender/belt holder, but fell short for me of being great. I do think Benn improved vastly @ 168 over the inexperienced 160 youth.

 

Nah. Subjective I know but I think you're being a little kind to Collins. Kalambay bamboozled him, Johnson sneaked it and Eubank was unlucky in the first fight(though Coliins apparently kicked the **** out of him in the second) and Benn was way past it.
His win against Kevin 'Killer' Watts was one of the gutsiest I've ever seen in a boxing ring however. He also beat Tony Thornton, though I've never seen it.

Benn and Eubank were top level fighters, not 'great' but bloody good and would've taken todays 160lbs fighters to school. (With GGG it's a little too early to tell imo).
Benn had incredible intensity, more than many I've seen, flawed but as dangerous as hell, especially when hurt.
Eubank was very quick and hard punching with that tremendous chin, a little sloppy, inconsistent at times and rather cynical in his attitude towards boxing. I not sure his legacy was that important to him. But I place him not that far behind Bhop head to head.

 

Without Watson II fights outcome Eubank would have been The GOAT.

 

Totally disagree.

Eubank was gifted decisions on numerous occasions, the worst being Watson 1 hence the immediate rematch. Mike made a huge mistake in the second fight by going in for the finish when Eubank got off the deck, when all he needed to do was stay away for the remaining couple of minutes. But having been shafted before probably thought he would need the stoppage.

He never looked like beating, Collins, Calzaghe or Thompson, so it is a big claim to say he could have been the best ever at any weight.

 

Well I don't think we're too far apart-the Kalambay fight, which I've only seen once and it was a LONG time ago, i just remember it felt like it seemed like it took Kalambay forever to get going like 4 rounds but that he did counter beautifully when he did. Especially with the uppercut. It was a volume puncher against a counter puncher, I thought it was close. I also thought the Johnson fight was close-Collins was behind but he finished strong in 11th and 12th. Collins and Benn were same age-but I do feel the wars on Benn may have made him more ring worn. He did twist his knee after getting dropped and couldn't continue in one of the fights. I remember the Eubank fight not sure if it was first one or second but Collins was supposedly hyptnotized and the media played it up that it freaked Eubank out-either way Collins came out possessed and I felt both fights were hard earned wins on his part.

 

Eubank clearly won the first Watson fight. Gorgeous schooling for the first 5 rounds.

He also clearly won the first Collins fight - the 10th and 11th rounds were total humiliation of Collins.

In so many 12-rounders against lesser fighters he was complacent, let them outwork him and outcommit and outeffort him. It was said he would train erratically, often going into a fight drained to the limit - much of the posturing during a contest was actually Eubank conserving his energy.

So good at stepping in with jabs and pulling out of range, the master at it. Rarely hit. Evaded jabs with the slightest head motion. He had unique foot movement and an unreal chin (when tested by Benn). His issues were with fluidity and forward balance, but the awkwardness threw guys off. Loved his short uppercuts and sneaky crosses when a guy stood his ground or went for him - top-drawer.

 

I have to disagree, I felt Collins clearly won the first Eubank fight despite Eubank's strong finish sweeping the last 3 rounds. Ronny Davis was screaming that he needed a knockout, knowing his man was behind. He let his moment pass in round 10 by clowning around after the knockdown. Collins was up big through 9. I think I had it 115-113 at the end. Close fight but Collins was a shade better that fight.

 

Chris Eubank is my favourite boxer of all-time. In my view he's the best middleweight that the UK has ever had. Unfortunately the outcome of the Watson II fight had so much impact on him.
The fights vs Benn and Watson ar one of the best fight I have ever seen.
In my view Chris Eubank deserves his alias : Simply the Best.

 

Second tier world class fighters the same as Calzaghe.

 

I agree with all this except calling Watson I the worst decision. His gifts vs Amaral and Schommer were easily two of the worst calls in boxing history- both clearly outboxed him...something which was actually a lot easier than people seem to remember. The two verdicts were worse than anything even Ottke ever received probably.

Eubank was even befuddled by Dan Sherry too...until he butted him, had two points deducted, the fight had to be stopped (due to Sherry's play-acting in fairness) and he still got the verdict . If all the top 10 middles of the 1990s had a league table and fought each other, I'm extremely confident Eubank would have finished near the bottom for sure, possibly at the very bottom. The only one I'm truly confident he would beat more often than not is Julian Jackson.

Eubank would be comprehensively outboxed by Jones, Toney, Nunn, McCallum and Hopkins. He was severly limited when forcing the fight on the front foot- and would often be made to look pedestrian by the likes of Gary Stretch and Ray Close! These were the kind of calibre of fighter that would receive a shot at the WBO title...a crown which seemed to appeal only to the British, limited Europeans and Kronk Gym back then.

In fairness to Eubank, he could look good...vs pure punchers and aggressive fighters, as he had an top chin and good counter-punching skills. He was one of the top 10 fighters of that era, but compared with most of the rest, he simply wasn't in their class...just laughing thinking about that messy looping right hand which usually came with a postcard attached, it was that slow, hardly ever landed but looked good on a youtube compilation due to the fact that it produced one or two knockouts...but 99% of the time ended with Eubank missing wildly and totally losing his balance.

A hugely overrated fighter, who only ever owned paper belts. Benn fought better qualiy oppositon, actually managed to improve his skills after he lost to Eubank and became a fairly decent boxer when at 168. He deserves a higher ranking.

 

Eubank ran away with the last five rounds against young Amaral from what I remember. If you asked any other middleweight/super-middleweight to fight every seven weeks, they wouldn't have stood a chance - or how about this, if you asked all the top light-heavyweights and cruiserweights at the time to fight at 168 every seven weeks, they'd be in intensive care.

Where Eubank supposedly lost rounds was when lazily covering up to allow Sherry and Close to tap his arms... to a typical British boxing follower who holds workrate over clean-hitting, it would look like Eubank was losing - but to qualified judges at ringside it was a different story.