INteresting Article: Bob Foster laughs off Monzon at 175

He looked fine in most of those fights, well the 160 ones anyway-flukish knockdown of Conteh aside.I have his cuts win over Swift as well.A classy fight

No doubt Bogs got the benefit of the doubt in Denmark, and i don't think he was more than lower half of the top ten material, buti don't mind him as a fighter.Good solid textbook boxer, if a bit Corro-esque at times.

Middleweight was still deep enough then that even if they were ranked undeservingly, the majority of the top 20 would be at least decent.I have time for a lot of the 2nd and 3rd tier contenders of the late 60s-mid 90s at middleweight...lots of solid fighters in there.Then the division drops of a cliff in terms of quality imo.

This said, why would anyone want to talk about Bogs fighting Foster? That is just cruel.

 

He looked like nothing againts Monzon, Duran, Griffith, Fullmer, Fourie, or Conteh. In none of those fights would you favor him after you saw him in the opening round. None. Even his knockdown of Conteh was due more to balance than anything else. The guy was stiff, had horrible punching technique, kept his chin straight up in the air, and had confused footwork. As I said, its no coincidence that his best filmed performance is against the least qualified guy we have him on film against. You tend to look better when fighting overmatched opponents. But, fundamentally we disagree because I think by the time Bogs got a shot at the middleweight championship the division was pretty weak. You had guys like Nate Collins, George Cooper, Bouttier (who was as bad as Bogs and just as protected), Bunny Sterling, Tony Mundine (who had yet to face anyone truly threatening at this point, not that he was ever that good anyway) among others coming in and out of the top ten along with fading old guard members like Griffith. It was a pretty weak division at this point. I guess you could use that as an excuse to fight Bogs but I dont think Bogs even cracks that top ten division.

 

I'm not exactly a Bogs advocate or anything but i think you're taking things way too far with him.I certainly don't agree with the heavy handed assessment of the Monzon, Duran, Griffith and Fullmer fights.

Griffith was still very good till at least 71 imn the downside of course, but he was still a very good cutie.I see people say he was shot when he fought Monzon, but he looks nothing of the sort.a fighter that aged well and declined slowly and gradually, not dropping off a cliff like many.

btw how you can cup a protected fighter like Eubank's balls(with all his half-assed performances that could easily be criticised in a similarly heavy handed manner, and gift\debatable decisions) when you can be so harsh against someone like Bogs is beyond me.

 

Eubank had some lazy performances but he fought up or down to his level of opposition. I admit that Eubank had some head scratching performances but those werent down to technique or his inability to perform. We know that based on the success he had against better fighters than those lazy performances. Bogs never had that second gear to kick it into. His weak performances werent just against the journeyman, has beens, and never weres he built his record on but they were also in the biggest fights of his career. And even then it was because, like Eubank, he wasnt giving his best it was because he didnt have anything better to give. Eubank was world class. No doubt. And head to head Id favor him over Bogs any day of the week. He showed a level of class (when he wanted to) that Bogs NEVER exhibited.

How can you not be hard on his performances against Griffith, Monzon, and Fullmer? He looked like **** in those fights. Fullmer was brought in as a lamb to the slaughter and Bogs did NOTHING in that fight. He looked scared shitless. Same with Griffith. That was supposed to be Bogs big coming out party. He was fighting a much older, smaller fighter and every advantage except experience and he got dominated. He was nothing in that fight. With Monzon forget it. Monzon took that fight lightly and still beat the hell out of Bogs. There was always an excuse for his losses, most prominently the ludicrous blaming of Al Silvani (as if there was a better trainer in the whole of Denmark than Silvani...) but the reality is that he simply wasnt that good. Go watch his fights. Am I wrong about his punching technique? His footwork? His defense? His chin positioning? Anyone who watches him objectively will see Im not being hard on him just realistic. With all of that in mind you said yourself, anyone who thinks hed be beat Foster, ANY VERSION OF FOSTER, much less be competetive with him is living in a fantasy world. The way he keeps that chin in the air Foster would put him in a hospital. It would be criminal to match him with Foster.

 

I´ve got the Bogs vs. Stengel in my collection. A few rounds from Griffith, from Fulmer 1 and the whole Monzon-fight.
Bogs´fights are not available on the market - they can be viewed at DR /Denmarks National Broadcasting-permisson granted. I know the Fourie-fight is not there.
How did You get to so many of Tom Bogs´ fights ?
And the alternate angle of the Monzon/Bogs fight !!?? I´ve seen a tape of the Argentinian Broadcast from the fight - it is the same two camera´s used for the Danish Broadcast, same angles, same cutting between angles. The alternate angle version is unknown to me.
Please explain ?

 

The alternate angle of the Bogs/Monzon fight is a 16mm film as opposed to the television broadcast. The other films I have collected over the years from various sources.

 

But why such an interest in collecting fights of Tom Bogs - a fighter You disregard so much ?
You may collect fights with Griffith and Monzon - even be the owner of a very rare, and unknown 16mm version of his defence against Bogs - and you may be the only private collector who have the full Griffith vs. Bogs fight.

But when it comes to your ownership of the two Carlos Duran vs Tom Bogs fights - Duran hardly a man you´ll praise or be a great fan of ? It gets very strange. Maybe You can explain why and how they ended in your collection ?

Regarding the first fight between Carlos Duran and Tom Bogs - I admit to have never seen it. It is impossible to get hold on in Denmark. But I ran tru the archieves of the two leading Danish newspapers, BT and Ekstrabladet - and they write that Tom Bogs was world-class while taking the European Title from Duran in Copenhagen. Boxing News, Expressen (Sweden) and experts at ringside praises Tom Bogs for his performance.
The second fight, battled in Rome- for which he recieves very bad comments from the same newspapers - I´ve seen in its full lenght - and there he is a very, very narrow loser.
Maybe with Your knowledge - You coul comment on the difference between his performances in the two fights ?

 

Thats actually an interesting question:

You are correct I dont care much to watch Bogs or have much interest in him. But this isnt out of ignorance, rather the opposite, because I have looked fairly closely at his career. My interest in him started out of an interest in Monzon and the actual quality of his championship opposition(which I feel is weak). Since most of Monzon's fights were against foreigners (foreign to me) and on foreign soil it became necessary to acquire as much footage on them as possible in order guage their ability. So my interest was not reserved just to Bogs. I also acquired most of Bouttier's fights, most of Tonna's fights, a significant portion of Moyer's bouts, everything that is available of Griffith (barring two bouts: Golfarini and Renato Garcia), most of what is known to exist on Briscoe, everything of Fraser Scott, everything of Rodrigo Valdez, everything of Licata, most of Mundine, Napoles, Benvenuti, etc. In addition to quite a lot of training footage on these guys. And as far as Bogs goes I have quite a lot of footage of his opponents as well, so I can guage his relative ability based on his performances against them and where they were at developmentally at that point in their career. So for instance you mention Juan Carlo Duran. In addition to his fights with Bogs I also have his bouts with Nando, Griffith, Bouttier, Kechichien, Elze, etc. off the top of my head (I think I have more) thats a decent amount of his biggest bouts to gain a read on him. I also have everything that I know to exist on Don Fullmer so I can get a good idea based on all of that footage where he was at in his career when he fought Bogs and what Bogs should have been able to accomplish against him were he that good.

As for his fights with Duran they were sloppy and close. Both fights were much closer than the Danish press would have us imagine. They screamed bloody murder (Im told) when he lost to Duran in the rematch. They ignored that the first fight (which Bogs won by the grace of two knockdowns) was just as close as the rematch and that the Italians were just as outraged at that decision as the Danes were about the second fight. When the bell ended the first fight Duran raised his hands in victory and walked over to console Bogs for losing. As he reached Bogs the referee raised Bogs hands and Duran's mouth gaped open wide with jaw almost hitting the floor. He stood there for a few seconds shaking his head at the ref then turned around to the audience and raised his hands as if to say "what the hell." Both fights were jab fests (similar to the first Fullmer fight although Fullmer clearly won that fight) with Duran largely pressing the action. He got more careful after the knockdowns but even so the fight could have easily gone the other way.

 

After Conteh's victory over Ahumada, Foster, now at least 32 years old and a sergeant in the Bernalillo County sheriff's department in Albuquerque, indicated he could be lured out of retirement. "I like the way I'm living now," he said. "I can go out and have a few drinks with the boys a couple of nights a week. But if the English promoters would come up with an offer of $250,000 tax free, I could change my mind."

Foster may have an argument with his manager Lou Viscusi if he decides to fight Conteh. "I don't bring people out of retirement," Viscusi said from his home in Tampa. "Once I retire 'em, they stay retired. I retired Bobby so he could take it easy. I don't want him jumping up for everyone who makes him an offer.

I bought my first boxing magazines in early 1975, and I remember reading about the possibility that Foster might return. At the time, the gossip was that Foster intended to continue his career, but temporarily retired because that was the only way he could dump Viscusi. Allegedly their management contract had some kind of retirement loophole. I don't know if any of this is true, though.

I'm surprised that Foster couldn't snag a title shot after he returned in late 1975. Either way, I'm doubtful that he could have handled Conteh or Galindez in 1976 or 1977. Foster was on the biological and athletic downside by then, I believe.

 

When you describe both fights as "sloppy" and accuse the Danish press for giving a wrong report from the fights, and if you by watching your enormous fightfilm-collection only reveal inabilities of fighters, and if you take the gaped mouth of a losing fighter as evidence of unfair scoring, then there are still no proof of you being an ignorant - but you sure are acting as one.

 

You asked for my opinion on the Duran fights and I calls em likes I sees em. People can believe me, or they can believe the Danes (who are well known for ridiculously fixed fights and ludicrously biased opinions). The bottom line is that Ive seen the fights and you havent yet you are still clinging to your beliefs. Who has more credibility you or me? If you dont like it that someone who knows more about Bogs fights than you thinks he sucked then find a new hero. The guy wasnt ****. You may not like my descriptions of Bogs style or his fights but you have yet to actually refute them. Was Bogs footwork good? No. Was Bogs punching technique good? No. Was Bogs defense good? No. Was Bogs the beneficiary of several ridiculous decisions in his favor in Denmark? Yes. Did and do the Danish press and fans have rose colored belief of Bogs' ability? Yes. Ok. So there you have it.

 

+1

 

Come now! 4-0 with 11 even rounds (Bogs-Finnegan) is a perfectly legitimate scorecard! :tong

 

And people call the Ezzard Charles-Rex Layne scorecard that Dempsey turned in pathetic. at 2-1-7 at least Dempsey had the decency to give Charles a round! Eleven rounds even? Thats bush league.

 

I notice, that Bogs vs Finnegan isn't on the list of fights you have seen with Bogs - so I'm a bit curious to know, what makes you label it a "criminal gift decision"?

Also, I'm not quite sure what you mean by "typical Danish officiating 11 rounds even"?