if you mean wlad's, don't you think it's a measure of how he's been able to redefine himself that he's been able to overcome that?
Yes! We can't really argue with it anymore we just have to sit back and enjoy the rest of his career. He's showed true grit aswell comming back from the losses he's faced and the circumstances of his past. Not alot of people can or has done it in such a style. Yes the divison is weak but really how weak is it? He's still beaten two olympic medalists, alot of amateur world champions so it hasn't been THAT weak of a era as people make it out to be. I don't think he would fair up well against let's say a Fraizer or a Tyson but I do see him outboxing alot of guys in the top 15. He would loose to some but he sure aint would loose to everyone.
He was responding to Zak Zak is one of those self-appointed "chin-checkers" who rattles on all the time about this one and that one having a glass chin. Wlad has been stopped by Brewster and Purity, probably having gassed. But Sanders stopped him early so some folks maintain that Wlad has a glass chin. So when chin-checker Zak asserts that history will deem Wlad an ATG, one might well ask about the 'glass.'
Both Klitschkos are extremely overrated since they have annually been placed among the top 10 p4p for the past few years in several p4p lists. To claim that they are underrated is fallacious and a terrible farce. Simply copy pasting statistics such as the Klitschkos W-L record or KO ratios and numerically comparing them to other great heavyweights simply demonstrates an inability to use logical thinking and an inability to put these misleading statistics into context. After the Holyfield Bowe Tyson Lewis era was finished, the post early 2000s heavyweight division became the weakest division in the history of any weight class of any era since perhaps the beginning of boxing as a sport. All of the wins in both Klitschkos resumes come against fighters years and years beyond their prime, with padded records, with no name fighters who should not be in a boxing ring to begin with, or some combination of these flaws. The biggest and most impressive win on both Klitschko's resume is Samuel Peter - who still managed to knock down the bum Wladimir 3 times in one fight. Samuel Peter as your best win does not make you an all time great or a top 10 p4p fighter for several years. In a weak era where Samuel Peter was the best fighter you beat (and one that Wladimir struggled with), it doesn't matter how many title defenses, knockouts, wins, etc. you have. You are not among the elite. Lennox Lewis - even at 38 years old, fat, in the worst shape of his career, was barely losing on the scorecard 58-56 to Vitali - which could easily have been scored a draw at that point (yet so many idiotic fans try to use this slim edge as validation that Klitschko "won" the fight) and still managed to take complete control of the fight heading into the 6th round and smashed Vitali's face so badly that a medical professional could not allow Vitali to get further annihilated and, in hindsight, Lennox exposed Vitali as a fraudulent champion fighting in a weak era like Rocky Marciano. Vitali was not dominating the fight. He had a decent start and as the fight went on he was eating uppercuts left and right and continued to clinch excessively. Lennox Lewis (remember - a 38 year old, fat, out of shape Lennox Lewis) still gave him fits and forced a doctor to stop the fight because Vitali was taking such a beating. Ironically people consider this humiliating face bashing to be Vitali's shining moment - that shows how overrated of a boxer you are when getting your faced smashed while having the slimmest of leads on the scorecard is your crowning achievement. What I have written is UNDISPUTED truth and FACTUAL. This is not opinion or conjecture. I challenge any human being on earth to try and dispute the infallible assertion that, in general, the Klitshkos are extremely overrated by the media and public. The following arguments do not disprove what has been written above and if one uses these fallacious arguments it will only prove one's own incompetence - much like Wladimir proved his incompetence as a boxer in getting demolished by Brewster (and falsely making up a poison excuse, no less.) Sanders and Puritty, and how Vitali demonstrated his incompetence as a boxer in having a relatively terrible performance against a trash version of Lennox Lewis. 1) Vitali is 45-2 with losses coming by injury stoppages and a 87% KO ratio. Wladimir is 59-3 with 51 KOs. Few boxers can match these numbers. And who was the best opponent these boxers beat? Samuel Peter. Padded records mean nothing. Brian Nielsen was 49-0 at one point. Eric Esch was 61-1-3 at one point. Copy pasting statistics does not prove anything when you fail to put them in context. I highly doubt anyone is foolish enough to put Eric Esch above Evander Holyfield despite the fact that Esch has a higher winning percentage. If Holyfield fought both Klitschko's level of competition he would walk through them without a scratch. 2) Lennox Lewis was afraid of Vitali and ducked a rematch. First of all - Lennox Lewis made Riddick Bowe duck HIM, he fought Holyfield twice, was willing to fight Tyson for several years and finally did, fought Mccall and Rahman even after being KOd, and Tommy Morrison, but some people are foolish enough to think he is scared of fighting KLITSCHKO of all people??? Secondly as mentioned several times - Lennox was 38, fat, in the worst shape ever, past his prime, and still made Vitali's face look like the deer my friend killed and put through the grinder a few weeks ago. Thirdly - Why should a man in the physical twilight of his career (Lennox) risk his health for one more fight when he didn't take the fight seriously in the first place (still winning by TKO) and already proved his place among the all time greats? Vitali should be on his knees kissing Lennox's feet for even giving a bum like Klitschko the opportunity to fight an all time great like Lennox. Lennox isn't in the position of Joe Louis who had to come back and fight because of IRS problems, so he has no reason to risk his health after already risking it for over a decade against fighters lightyears beyond Klitschko. 3) the Klitschkos are foreign so they do not get respect. really? Marquez, Pacquiao, Chavez sr, Duran, Monzon, Sergio Martinez, Genady Golovkin, Adonis Stevenson, Maidana, Rigondeux, Donaire do not get respect? anyone who said this - shut up. No need to pull the race/nationality card 4) The Klitschkos records are numerically similar/better than other great heavyweights like Evander, Tyson, Ali, Foreman, etc. Again, copy pasting statistics does not prove anything. Look at the men that the REAL heavyweights had to fight compared to the bum Klitschkos. Bowe, Lennox, Moorer, Tua, Tyson, Evander, Morrison, Spinks, Foreman, Patterson, Frazier, Norton, Liston, etc. Now lets compare the Klitschkos wins - Peter, old washed up Mercer, old washed up Rahman, Chris Byrd, Orlin Norris (who lost to a washed up Tyson), Purrity, Sanders, 38 year old fat Lennox, Chisora, Haye, Povetkin, Eddie Chambers. the hilarious thing is that they actually lost to some of these fighters on the list. HUGE difference in competition. Anyone who legitimately believes the farce that either Klitschko is an all time great heavyweight (let alone an ATG p4p fighter) is simply one of the many sheep that blindly follow the herd without thinking for themselves. I have blessed such blind sheep with my wisdom and knowledge and opened their eyes to the truth. It is time for these blind sheep to acknowledge the truth, otherwise I fear that these sheep blindly stumbling through the dark for so long will deny the truth even more vehemently now that these blind sheep have been exposed to the light of truth. You do have to give the Klitschkos credit for dominating the division, even though it is incredibly weak. That in itself deserves SOME merit. You should not, however, put them among the all time greats after Vitali has been exposed by Lennox Lewis and Wladimir got showed up by Purrity Brewster and Sanders, and struggled against Sam Peter. Again - I challenge any human being to try and refute my indisputable factual statements at the risk of making themselves look as incompetent as the Klitschkos in their attempts to be ranked among all time great heavyweights. If any human being can refute the irrefutable facts listed, I will respond and recognize their superior wisdom and knowledge. Unfortunately for Klitschko fans, the only people who possess wisdom and knowledge superior to myself would never try and refute these facts in the first place. For that reason, the chances of receiving a response from myself are negligible.
Cut & paste................... Vitali is probably my favorite heavyweight, great chin, came back from a four year layoff and stopped Peter at the end of the 8th round, easily winning every round. When Vitali stopped Herbie Hide in London England, he was a five to one underdog, but he knocked Hide out easily in the second round, out cold winning the WBO title. Vitali also had the WBC title, retired because of injuries and, of course, won it back.................Vitali is in Book of World Records. Lennox Lewis was knocked out cold by Rahman, not a TKO, but a KO, McCall TKO'd Lewis...........Vitali retired Lewis, Lewis had a very badly broken nose was losing the fight, so his promoter signaled Lewis' doctor to signal Lewis' referee to stop that fight because Lewis was ready to go, even Max said the same and Angelo Dundee said that Vitali was cheated out of the WBC title that night..........Vladimir is very good fighter, Steward always said that he wanted to train Vlad after Lewis retired, and he did. Vlad is very skilled fighter. His balance is really good, quick, huge puncher, great defense, etc., he fights his mandatories and will be fighting his mandatory for WBO next. Vlad beat the IBF champion, the IBO, WBA, WBO, and won Ring Championship as well. I saw Vlad win the gold medal in Atlanta, GA back in 1996................all the hate for Klitschkos proves something, that they are beating up all the hater's heroes. Vlad is expected to fight Jennings after his mandatory and is interested in fighting another one of hater's heroes Wilder as well. After all, the haters claim that Wilder is the greatest heavyweight of all time......................Steward knew that Vlad was a great talent, that's why he became his trainer...........Steward was not stupid...............I was also very impressed with Vitali as a world champion kickboxer, both pro and amateur, he was six time world kickboxing champion, both pro and amateur, there is so much more. I do not see any heavyweight beating Vitali at this time, if Vitali were to come out of retirement, I do not see anyone who can beat Vlad, so haters will be hating for a long time yet..............
Looking back over the last 130 years of the sport, it seems impossible that a fighter with his record, would not be regarded as an ATG in the light of history.
This is about ATG status. Being one of the greatest fighters to ever live. Rigo is an excellent boxer but he isn't an ATG either. Plus his network dispute was only the work of Bob Arum and the majority of fans are against it. Nobody wants Wlad back on HBO. Plus Rigo and Wlad are not comparable in the slightest. Rigo hands out boxing lessons through sheer class and skill. Wlad is a dirty cheater who can't beat guys half his size with clean boxing. You also can't compare featherweights to HWs in terms of greatness and popularity. Naseem Hamed had a long regin as unifed lineal featherweight champion and was one of the biggest boxers on the planet. Where's his ATG staus? He's not even in the Hall of Fame.
Wlad is just a HW version of Sven Ottke. You wash your career down the tube when you can't win fights fairly.
He's a debatable top 10 HW, so if you rate the top 10 of every division as being the ATG's of that division then go for it, even though I have him outside of that. I tend to put the number of 50 for amount of "ATG's" ever... In which case Wladimir falls well short.
Exactly. Not Wlad problem his competition sucks. He's basically beat everyone convincingly, nothing more he can do. Wlad will be a certified ATG. Haters gon hate'