Alot of recent controversial fights, eg Groves Froch, have seen refs call a TKO instead of an 8 count and then assessment of the condition of the fighter before making a call. What is the story then with the 8 count? When should the ref decide whether an 8 count is appropriate or call the TKO? Its a hard one because a ref cant really jump in and stop the aggressor's right to finish off a fighter, though there are times when a fighter is shaken but weathering the storm and then should he be entitled to an 8 count? There must be a official rule on this? I'm just gonna leave this to ripen in the forums, see what you pundits come up with.
Personally, I thought it should have been an 8 count. That being said, you have to consider the fight was in England where half of Joe Calzghe's KO's were gained exactly in the same way by English officials prematurely stopping the fight.
Wiki defn : A standing eight count, also known as a protection count, is a boxing judgment call made by a referee during a bout. When invoked, the referee stops the action and counts to eight. Typically, a boxer can take 3 standing eight counts in a round. During that time the referee will determine if the boxer can continue. When the count reaches eight, the referee often moves back two steps and instructs the boxer to walk towards them and hold his arms out. This helps the referee determine if the boxer is functioning and alert enough to continue. If the boxer is unsteady on their feet, or seems unable to focus on the referee, the bout is ended on account of a TKO. It was designed to protect boxers by allowing the referee to step in and give an overwhelmed fighter an eight-second respite. Standing eight counts by the referee are scored the same as a knockdown, whether the boxer was knocked down or not. The United States Association of Boxing Commissions eliminated the standing eight count in 1998. ----> So, using the GG fight as a reference, one would say GG was 'overwhelmed monentarily' and 'hurt', probably for the first time in the fight - so really should have received an 8 count, especially adding the magnitude of the fight, level of the competitors ?
Lots of organisations have done away with the standing 8 count. There is no perfect solution, unfortunately. In one scenario, the guy might be about to get KOd, and the ref steps in, offers him a reprieve and he reasserts himself. In the other, guys who are standing up to the punishment get stopped early. Personally, I think any fighter in that position who doesn't clinch or take a knee is a bit of a fool and is allowing themselves to be cheated out of the fight. The no standing 8 count rule is probably the fairer way to do it, on that basis. (although I'm sure when angry at a stoppage I change my mind from time to time!!) Refs still have to be better though.
if the ropes hold the fighter up.......standing 8 count. otherwise if you keep taking punishment and dont have the wits to take a knee, the ref stops it.
Sometimes it would seem that a standing 8 count would help fighters when they are about to get KO'd. At least in some of the fights I've seen. I rarely ever see it now.
I think a count should only occur when a fighter is floored or takes a knee. There is no need for a standing 8 count as the fighter always has the opportunity to take a knee at any point, if he is too out of it to do that and/or unable to defend himself properly, the fight should obviously be stopped.
in real life......if a fighter is being overwhelmed....and assuming that the punches are very hard......and the effect on the overwhelmed fighter is obvious....stop the fight. No standing 8 count. But thats where each persons idea of "hurt" varies bigtime. I have allowed some fighters to punch themselves out(much like what Ali did to Foreman) before answering back at the end of his exchange. ive been put in standing 8 counts and wondered why. Soft refs? or hard ******* refs? id pick a hard ******* that understands what hurt is, and can read a fight as well as both fighters can. Id we allow standing 8 counts, we give an advantage to the one being counted. Being rocked is common. Being stopped cos you got rocked sucks! In the Froch-Groves fight, i think the fight should have been allowed to take its natural course. Groves out on the floor leaves no doubt. Groves still standing means he can still fight back, even if he was buzzed a few times along the way.
8 counts should be allowed in every fight. A hesitant or conservative ref? Bailed out by the 8 count.
I made 2 prior threads about this. All fights should have standing 8 counts. The harm is irreparable if the ref mistakenly stops a fight when a guy wasn't really hurt. A standing 8 minimizes the damage
Thing is, if they had given Groves a standing 8 count and he recovered, Froch would probably have reason to moan that he was about to get him out of there and the ref intervened. Basically it's rarely used unless the ropes are holding you up. Groves would've been best off taking a knee because it was going to be a 10-8 round anyway, even if he didn't hit the deck.
