Greater fighter,based on history and quality of opponents. Ali or PBF

Let me be honest.

This is a learning moment for me. I do not usually worry about how much these guys make. I did a little research. Pay per View started with Ali-Frazier III. I could not find the numbers on it. I also could not find the number on how much Mayweather makes on pay perview alone.

I what I did find out is that Mayweather is a great business man who is basically his own promoter, where-as Ali had King and Arum and deep American racism and no pay per view numbers in his prime great fights to bring his total take into more than what it was.

With all that, I think it is safe to say whatever point you are making you are not making a fair point. Ali made tons of money, without any benefits of pay per view or anything else other than his cut of the gate. If he had all of what he created with the Thrilla in Manilla he would have bought home the same kind of money that Mayweather does now.

The Thrilla in Manilla was the first fight use pay per view. Mayweather owes a great deal to Ali in how much money he makes. I think this also proves that fighting great fights creates a market. Ali created Pay per view in boxing. Mayweather is enjoying the benefits of being a great fighter and being a even greater promoter. He is only in it to make money. He is putting it all on his being undefeated because he knows that there are people out there than consider this the biggest point of being great. No need to fight Pacquaio in a war when the public will sell out you and Guerrero and Alvarez. My goodness that made me sad to type.

Have a nice day.

 

Let me explain something to you. Mayweather is not his own promoter, he owns a promotional company. He and Ellerbe may well be the mouthpieces, but behind that there is an army of " advisors " lawyers, accountants, and the like.

In fact exactly the same kind of people that first extracted the PPV money for the Thrilla in Manilla, but with almost 40 years more experience, and lower profiles.

Whether or not he owes all this to Ali is a matter of opinion, but as sure as eggs are eggs he owes to the suits that sit down and do the actual negotiating for every aspect of a promotion on his behalf.

You also have a nice day my friend.

 

"Mayweather is not his own promoter, he ownes a promotional company". - Foxy 01 (circa 2014)


That threw me for a second. I was like that sounds crazy. Why would a fighter own a promotion company and not promote his own fights but, you seem like a person who knows what they are talking about....anywho, I did a little research just to make sure.

Here are the fighters promoted by Mayweather Promotion. Check out the welterweight division please.

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Here is a fight that Mayweather Promotion co-promoted. BTW, it is a Mayweather fight.

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I cannot argue with that last part about who owes who concerning PPV...but it did start in boxing with Ali-Frazier III. I'm just saying. Last thing...you say that mayweather is just the "mouth piece". It seems as he also founded the company on his boxing skill and record, advises the fighters. On top of that promotion is being a mouth piece and being an example of boxing excellence is the best thing a promoter can do.

In his own words

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Thanks.

 

I'm fine thanks.

I can't see what you are getting at by showing these CO PROMOTIONS. Are you implying that Mayweather Promotions could negotiate the kind of deals that Showtime give it for Mayweathers own fights without Golden Boy, or a bigger promotional company's involvement?

Enjoy the rest of the day.

 

Come on, seriously...

The point is....the point is, is that Mayweather promotes his own fights. His promotion company co-promoted his fight with Canelo. Mayweather is a fighter on his own company. Co-promote or full promotion he is part of deal making and breaking of fights that he himself fights in through his own company working with other companies.

The point is that you said all this was not so but, it has been proven so unless you have something to show that I do not know about. I did not come from my own understanding with my answer to you, I did some research and found this stuff out specifically for this conversation with you.

And this is what you come back with. That "you cannot see what I am getting at". What kind of game is that? Are you being serious or what? You are just talking in circles. You are not confusing anyone except yourself and with that if you cannot come with something better than that I am going to get up from the table.

Peace

 

I'm not trying to confuse anyone, but you might be confusing yourself.

De La Hoya started Golden Boy 6 years before he stopped fighting himself.

Hatton started Hatton Promotions at the same time he announced the Pac fight.

Fighters starting promotion companies whilst still active is done for financial reasons ( probably tax ) not because they think they are big enough to sign huge long term deals with the TV networks, without the help of the established promoters with which they have to co promote.

Yes I am well aware that Mayweather will never deal with Arum,,,, blah, blah, blah.

The point I am making is quite simple. Mayweather has no idea of sitting and negotiating with any huge network and getting the best possible deal from them. Neither has Hatton, nor DLH.

But by starting promotional companies, they can send in the Schaffer's Ellerbe's or whoever in suits, to thrash out every possible advantage as representatives of said companies.

The difference of course is that the older promoters could, and did ( and in some cases probably still do ) go straight to the top men, site owners, TV networks etc, etc, and sort the deals out themselves.

The irony there of course is that Ali was possibly the greatest promoter ever that didn't hold a licence. Now that guy could REALLY sell a fight.

Be Lucky.

 

Saul Alvarez was undefeated in 43 pro fights with 6 world title bouts including wins over Trout, Mosley and Cintron. That doesn't equate to being inexperienced. If people felt he wasn't ready it was only because Floyd made him look that way, and lets not forget, Canelo was in the ring with a guy pushing 37 years of age and only appearing on average once annually. Who was Austin Trout? A well established amateur who undefeated in the pros coming off of five world title fight wins and one of the highest tauted Jr. Middles out there. His credentials were comparable to that of Meldrick Taylor's when Chavez fought him. As for your comment about Floyd needing Alvarez to meet him at a "catch weight", we're talking about a guy who began his career as a feather. Floyd can't be though of as having any significant advantage over Alvarez.

 

He was only viewed as being less experienced than Floyd Mayweather, but that does not constitute being "green" in general. If you're going to classify Alvarez as being too wet behind the ears, then you might as well put George Foreman in diapers when Ali fought him.

You don't seem to hold anyone in high regard that might make a case for Floyd getting props, but that doesn't change their standing at the time the fights of note took place.

Irrelevant....What did Foreman, Liston, Patterson, Frazier or Ellis do following their defeats to Ali, with the exception of George's comeback years later and in another life?

This doesn't make a case for Alvarez being inexperienced. If a guy who has 43 pro fights, two world bets, multiple title defenses and several wins over named opposition is supposed to be green, then I guess the same could be said of every fighter who existed following the retirement of Ray Robinson.

I don't see the catch weight issue. In Alvarez's previous 11 fights at Junior middle his weight fluctuated between 149 - 154. Why was weighing 152 for Floyd such a big deal? You are aware that Floyd has bounced all over the place in weight over the past 17 years and actually began his career at Super featherweight right? Did you really think he had an advantage over Alvarez?

This has already been addressed. Would it have been more fair if they waited 4 years, when Alvarez had something to the tune of 55 pro fights, while Floyd entered the ring at age 40 for you to consider this an even match? Kinda ridiculous if you ask me.. BTW, who was Ali, Leonard, Duran, Hagler, Hearns, or Louis beating at the age of 37?

 

lol are you seriously arguing that because mosley and cintron were well known fighters that automatically makes them big wins even if they werent even close to their primes….

btw at 37 floyd has beaten canelo and robert guerrero….not anything to write home about.

 

No.. The argument was weather or not Alvarez was "Green" when Floyd fought him.. Sorry but being a pro for the better part of 9 years, having 43 pro fights, 6 world title bout wins, and victories over a few named guys ( including another highly tauted undefeated champion ) does not make one green. If you're going to place him in the inexperienced category then you're going to have to take away credit from a lot of great fighters for some of their biggest wins..

Its plenty to write home about. In fact I think I'm going to start a book about it and have it over nighted to parents via FED EX ..Canelo was a consensus top 10 p4p fighter, holding two titles and a man whom Floyd rose in weight to beat.. Guerrero was a champion in his own right and had just made Berto's face look like a basketball. I'll ask again, what was Ali, Leonard, Hagler, Hearns, Duran, or Louis doing at that age?

 

You can tell Poxy is absolutely dying to state Mayweather, but he's too much of a coward to face the ridicule that would come his way if he did, which is why he's set about trying to divert this topic into "bah-xin bein' a bizniz, yo" and how Ali would possibly, probably, almost certainly (because he's not being presumptuous or anything) take the path of least resistance in making his money in today's sport.

 

And if Ali ( or any other fighter in history for that matter ) were around today, he might well have taken that path.. If fighters call all the shots, then what do you think managers and promoters do? In Muhammad's time the only way to make big money was to give everyone the fights that they WANTED to see.. It had nothing to do with having balls. Anyone who thinks that a multi million dollar sporting event is dictated by one guy saying to the other " fight me or your yellow" has a fourteen year old mentality.

 

And that would every bit as presumptuous (his words, not mine) as arguing the opposite. As it is, we have no idea what he would of done or how he would have done it, which means it'd be a lot easier and more reasonable to go by facts and reality, and possibly stick to the original topic at hand.

 

Agreed. But I was only pointing out that his logic isn't entirely flawed, if one only looks at the trends over the past 30 years. How many fighters can we honestly name since the 80's came around who fought anyone and everyone who has a heart beat? In fact there are very few fighters in boxing history who TRULY cleaned out an entire era.