Pacquiao's 'decline'

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Clydebank Blitz, Apr 15, 2014.


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  1. Typhoon

    Typhoon Well-Known Member Full Member

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    what's your evidence? Bradley would've been tough for younger Pacqiao, he's just defensive, quick and tactical. Marquez was getting beaten up before he got a lucky punch in but Marquez gave younger Pacquiao all sorts of trouble as-well; they had a draw in 2004 and Pacqiao's win over him in 2008 was controversial.

    So basically people are using Bradley and Marquez as evidence of Pacqiao's decline but it's weak evidence given Marquez gave Pacqiao all sorts of trouble in 04 and 08 and Bradley is just a defensive tactician who is a top pound for pounder.

    Put Hatton, Cotto, old De La Hoya and old Mosely in the ring with Pacman today and Pac will EAT THEM ALIVE.
     
    Typhoon, Apr 20, 2014
    Typhoon, Apr 20, 2014
    #46
  2. aramini

    aramini Boxing Addict Full Member

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    His stamina is way way down the evidence of my eyes and the way he reacts to getting hit. Cotto hit him clean and he smiled and fired back.

    Marquez fight two he blitzed Marquez and walked through his shots. He won that fight and deserved it. Three he look awful, four his punch resistance was gone when he tried to do what he did in the second fight. His punch output against clottey was superhuman, now he just looks at opponents and gasses.
     
    aramini, Apr 20, 2014
    aramini, Apr 20, 2014
    #47
  3. aramini

    aramini Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Also he did better against Bradley in the first fight lol it was an easy fight for him this one was tough and hard fought
     
    aramini, Apr 20, 2014
    aramini, Apr 20, 2014
    #48
  4. labintador

    labintador Active Member Full Member

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    Not if you compare Bradley's face after the first fight to his face after the second fight. His face was swelling so bad in the 2nd fight he looked like Quasimodo
     
    labintador, Apr 20, 2014
    labintador, Apr 20, 2014
    #49
  5. rumblefish7194

    rumblefish7194 New Member Full Member

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    One thing the fight made me think of was how when roy jones got older and he got ko'd by tarver. I wonder if that would have happened when jones was younger. Manny got tagged quite a big by the right hand.

    That was one of the things i found most concerning about pacquiao and his age. In the past i can remember him getting hit clean by rights but now it seems like he reacts much slower.

    I still wonder about pacquiao's power. It was there in the fourth marquez fight. He knocked down mosley. But bradley is tough.

    Overall it's probably unfair to grade pacquiao's decline on the bradley fight. But It did seem like his reflexes were slower. I don't know about his power. But it did seem that tim was holding on quite a bit towards the end of the fight. Which i hadn't seen him due previously
     
    rumblefish7194, Apr 20, 2014
    rumblefish7194, Apr 20, 2014
    #50
  6. aramini

    aramini Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Reflexes are reflexes, whether PAC is fighting Bradley or Barrera. PAC reached a new level in his prime, from David Diaz to about the middle of the margarito fight. The way he clobbered tony was so different than the way he clobbered rios- like half the punch output. He is just well past his best. By thirty four traditionally most light and jr welters are pretty much done. ... His longevity with that style is a testament to his greatness.
     
    aramini, Apr 20, 2014
    aramini, Apr 20, 2014
    #51
  7. progamer

    progamer Boxing Junkie banned

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    pac would beat madona worse than he did rios. rios has solid chin and hardly gas.
     
    progamer, Apr 20, 2014
    progamer, Apr 20, 2014
    #52
  8. Clydebank Blitz

    Clydebank Blitz Don't Be Scared Homie Full Member

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    Word for word all of this.

    Yeah, he got caught. The knockdown before it was HUGE also, and actually gets forgotten about a lot. But none the less Pac looked better against him than ever before.
     
    Clydebank Blitz, Apr 21, 2014
    Clydebank Blitz, Apr 21, 2014
    #53
  9. klimting

    klimting ???? Full Member

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    I agree.
     
    klimting, Apr 21, 2014
    klimting, Apr 21, 2014
    #54
  10. Windigo

    Windigo Boxing Addict Full Member

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    He hasn't lost his power. You don’t lose your power.

    He has lost some of the quickness in his legs however. Prime Manny would appear to teleport from being 4 feet in front of his opponent, to on the corner unloading, to away as his opponent pivoted to face him. Today while still quick we can see him move in and out.

    You never lose your punch. Your legs go.

    That being said Mannys got a long time till his legs become anything close to human.
     
    Windigo, Apr 21, 2014
    Windigo, Apr 21, 2014
    #55
  11. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

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    Its somewhat comical to me that theres still people that try and claim that Pac hasn't declined :lol: That Pac is still in his prime..... what nonsense.

    The guy fights on a purely athletic style based on energy and speed, is 35 years old, has had OVER 60 fights, and has fought almost 400 rounds (more than Mayweather, De La Hoya, Margarito, Cotto, Vargas, Gatti, ect) with notoriously hard sparring wars in between each fight (where most boxing insiders will tell you gym wars take as much out of you as do the fights many times).

    Quick, find me a fighter that has fought 400 rounds who is still in their prime. You cant? I guess Pac is the lone physiological exception to the human species....

    The physical wear and tear ALONE, after almost 20 years of being a professional boxer, is so assuredly there that anyone trying to say that Pac is physically the same fighter now, at 35 years old, that he was in 2008 (6 long years ago) is just so comically absurd and even moreso when you factor in its coming from someone who watches enough boxing to be posting on a boxing forum. I would understand if I heard this at the workplace with casuals who have seen 3 pac fights in their life.

    Let alone the evidence for it in the ring.

    I said after the Mosley fight that I saw decline in Pac, and got the usual talk that comes from people after making such a claim. I can see it plain as day in the ring and its surprising to me that anyone who watches boxing enough to be posting on a boxing forum, wouldn't be able to see it. But lets break down his fights since I first noticed him slipping.

    Mosley UD ------ first time I felt Pac has slipped as a fighter

    JMM loss ----- Pac looked worst then ever against a guy hes fought twice before. Let me guess, its that JMM just got that much better over the years right? :lol: An even older JMM, at a weight he shouldn't have been fighting at, beats Pac in a way he couldn't do when he himself (jmm) was closer to his prime. This fight had me cringing on how bad Pac looked.

    Bradley win ------ Pac won a close fight, but it was a fight that would had never even been close had the fight taken place 4 years earlier. Another fight where I was unimpressed with Pacs performance.... although being able to beat a fighter like Tim Bradley at Pacs stage, without putting in an impressive performance, makes the win itself, impressive.

    Marquez KO loss ---- speaks for itself. People look back at this fight and say its the best Pac had looked in years. As far as 'inner fire' is concerned, then ya.... after the first knockdown it is indeed true that the Pac that gets up and gets after JMM is the best hes looked since Margarito, just out of pure motivation to destroy his opponent, but that's about the extent of it. Now you can add a hard knockdown and a brutal KO to the list of wear and tear on Pac after this fight.

    Brandon Rios -----

    Rios.... a guy who would have been David Diaz'd had he fought a 2008 Pac, where fighters like Cotto either succumbed, or ran... and if you tried to stand in front of him (Margarito) it changed your career..... stands in front of Pac the entire night, coming forward, and smiles about it.

    If the fact that Pac had a completely, and I mean completely, tailor made fighter who was brought in to make him look good and would be there for him to hit all night, and Pac couldn't have a sensational moment the entire fight, doesn't open your eyes to the obvious truth of Pac decline, nothing will.


    The fact he was able to eek out a win over a fighter of Bradleys caliber at this stage (which is the worst Ive ever seen Pac look) is a testament to his greatness.



    But anyone trying to say that Pac is as potent, and as physically explosive, with as sharp a mind and fire in his heart, as he was 6 years ago, is as delusional as it gets in boxing.


    But the truth is, most of the people claiming hes not obviously declined fall into two catagories....

    1 - Pac fans that are holding on to a delusion of Pacs prime (much like Tyson fans back in the day)

    but more often

    2 - Pac haters/fans of JMM/Mayweather, who need to say that Pac is still prime to try and undermine him as a fighter for his recent defeats and 'exposures'.


    But..... as I have come to learn, there is a boxing fan for every opinion possible. You think of the most absurd claim you can think of in boxing, and I can find a boxing fan that believes it somewhere.
     
    kirk, Apr 21, 2014
    kirk, Apr 21, 2014
    #56
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